Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[ProjectEnd]

I'm partly sorry to see all those noise walls going in (maybe ML wants the distinction of having the title for most noise walls as well as parking spaces? lol) as part of the charm of riding GO for me was always the ability to peer into all the backyards, no two of which were alike. the view is so much more bland with all those (quickly tagged) uniform walls. Riding 2WAD will be a bit like riding the subway in places.

However, more importantly, it's a sign that we are truly converting those old railway corridors to permanent urban transit infrastructure. In fifty years, people will wonder about the days when an old farmer's fence was all that delineated these lines.

Sic transit transit.

- Paul

Completely agree. I hate the noise walls. Even more, I hate that trains have become something we seemingly need to hide or be ashamed of (HS2, I'm looking at you). I was recently looking at a place on Prescott, right near there. Didn't get it and was a bit disappointed, but now, seeing those walls go in, the draw to something like that is gone completely. Imagine living like my 3rd picture above? No thank you.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Completely agree. I hate the noise walls. Even more, I hate that trains have become something we seemingly need to hide or be ashamed of (HS2, I'm looking at you). I was recently looking at a place on Prescott, right near there. Didn't get it and was a bit disappointed, but now, seeing those walls go in, the draw to something like that is gone completely. Imagine living like my 3rd picture above? No thank you.

I don't mind it - as much as the aesthetics of it is wanting, the walls served a physical barrier to the corridor.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

I don't mind it - as much as the aesthetics of it is wanting, the walls served a physical barrier to the corridor.

AoD

After the recent double fatality near Weston, a couple GO RTE's of my acquaintance commented on how they seldom encounter trespassers in that zone any more, account much more seamless fencing than in past..... perhaps ML is in fact winning the battle on keeping people off the right of way.

All the same, that fencing is severe. No more so than the miles and miles of cuts and stonework that one sees riding the likes of British Rail (the scrap value of the metal fencing along British main lines must equal the market value of the Royal Family's jewelry collection!). Maybe a little fast-growing ivy will improve things.

Looking at @ProjectEnd's photos, I did wonder about the backyard with the double fence. I wonder if ML has ceded the little strip of land between the original homeowner's fence and the new ML fence. I wonder where the legal property line lies. If not the homeowner, who has responsibility for that little strip if, say, an animal nest or other infestation arrives? Did the property line move thanks to the fence?

If it were my home, I would certainly be mulling about what clandestine artwork or decoration might enliven that wall. A fake window with blue sky showing?

- Paul

 

[ProjectEnd]

After the recent double fatality near Weston, a couple GO RTE's of my acquaintance commented on how they seldom encounter trespassers in that zone any more, account much more seamless fencing than in past..... perhaps ML is in fact winning the battle on keeping people off the right of way.

All the same, that fencing is severe. No more so than the miles and miles of cuts and stonework that one sees riding the likes of British Rail (the scrap value of the metal fencing along British main lines must equal the market value of the Royal Family's jewelry collection!). Maybe a little fast-growing ivy will improve things.

Looking at @ProjectEnd's photos, I did wonder about the backyard with the double fence. I wonder if ML has ceded the little strip of land between the original homeowner's fence and the new ML fence. If not, who has responsibility for that little strip if, say, an animal nest or other infestation arrives?

If it were my home, I would certainly be mulling about what clandestine artwork or decoration might enliven that wall. A fake window with blue sky showing?

- Paul

I had a situation where we put up a new wall outside of where an existing fence was, and we just gave the extension to the owners. We didn't file any paperwork with the LRO to change lot dimensions or surveys, but the extra space was theirs to have.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

After the recent double fatality near Weston, a couple GO RTE's of my acquaintance commented on how they seldom encounter trespassers in that zone any more, account much more seamless fencing than in past..... perhaps ML is in fact winning the battle on keeping people off the right of way.

All the same, that fencing is severe. No more so than the miles and miles of cuts and stonework that one sees riding the likes of British Rail (the scrap value of the metal fencing along British main lines must equal the market value of the Royal Family's jewelry collection!). Maybe a little fast-growing ivy will improve things.

Looking at @ProjectEnd's photos, I did wonder about the backyard with the double fence. I wonder if ML has ceded the little strip of land between the original homeowner's fence and the new ML fence. I wonder where the legal property line lies. If not the homeowner, who has responsibility for that little strip if, say, an animal nest or other infestation arrives? Did the property line move thanks to the fence?

If it were my home, I would certainly be mulling about what clandestine artwork or decoration might enliven that wall. A fake window with blue sky showing?

- Paul

Considering the knock-on impact of accidents and fatalities with higher train frequency and speed - I am glad it is working. Reliability matters - and short of complete grade separation, the goal should be to limit track intrusion via physical barriers.

I know ML has a thing against vegetation in general - but ivy on these walls on the train side would serve more to beautify than any textural treatment.

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

Completely agree. I hate the noise walls. Even more, I hate that trains have become something we seemingly need to hide or be ashamed of (HS2, I'm looking at you). I was recently looking at a place on Prescott, right near there. Didn't get it and was a bit disappointed, but now, seeing those walls go in, the draw to something like that is gone completely. Imagine living like my 3rd picture above? No thank you.

put yourselves in the shoes of actual homeowners instead of the current armchair foamer. you will guarantee rather have that wall than to hear the constant noise of that morning rush diesel go train. itll get better with electrics once they come in but you will still hear that constant whirring sound every 10min once RER is here. could they have used more premium materials like transparent glass, sure but considering the cost of installation and long term maintenance, its an easy tradeoff to make. this is what you get for living in a rail corridor. dont like it? move somewhere else.

 

[Metroscapes]

After the recent double fatality near Weston, a couple GO RTE's of my acquaintance commented on how they seldom encounter trespassers in that zone any more, account much more seamless fencing than in past..... perhaps ML is in fact winning the battle on keeping people off the right of way.

All the same, that fencing is severe. No more so than the miles and miles of cuts and stonework that one sees riding the likes of British Rail (the scrap value of the metal fencing along British main lines must equal the market value of the Royal Family's jewelry collection!). Maybe a little fast-growing ivy will improve things.

Looking at @ProjectEnd's photos, I did wonder about the backyard with the double fence. I wonder if ML has ceded the little strip of land between the original homeowner's fence and the new ML fence. I wonder where the legal property line lies. If not the homeowner, who has responsibility for that little strip if, say, an animal nest or other infestation arrives? Did the property line move thanks to the fence?

If it were my home, I would certainly be mulling about what clandestine artwork or decoration might enliven that wall. A fake window with blue sky showing?

- Paul

Considering the knock-on impact of accidents and fatalities with higher train frequency and speed - I am glad it is working. Reliability matters - and short of complete grade separation, the goal should be to limit track intrusion via physical barriers.

I know ML has a thing against vegetation in general - but ivy on these walls on the train side would serve more to beautify than any textural treatment.

AoD

A couple brief comments:

• The robustness of noise walls is driven by noise legislation. If there's ever going to be flexibility for other treatments, either more 'aesthetically pleasing' alternatives need to meet the noise attenuation standards, or there needs to be lower standards (for whatever reason or justification)
• Excuse my speculation, but the Weston fatalities (which are so flippin' tragic, it deeply saddens me) seem to be misadventure. I don't know if slowly implementing noise walls against private backyards is going to have a huge impact on mitigating misadventure. If we want to do something of higher value to mitigate fatalities, I'd argue improved connections across long stretches of lines without crossings will do that. That's why I analyzed it.

 

[ProjectEnd]

put yourselves in the shoes of actual homeowners instead of the current armchair foamer. you will guarantee rather have that wall than to hear the constant noise of that morning rush diesel go train. itll get better with electrics once they come in but you will still hear that constant whirring sound every 10min once RER is here. could they have used more premium materials like transparent glass, sure but considering the cost of installation and long term maintenance, its an easy tradeoff to make. this is what you get for living in a rail corridor. dont like it? move somewhere else.

Yikes. Reread my post. I was saying my disappointment stems from not being able to live beside an active, functioning, rail corridor...

 

[cplchanb]

Yikes. Reread my post. I was saying my disappointment stems from not being able to live beside an active, functioning, rail corridor...

Well... my response is explaining why noise walls are a necessity. Good that you're one of the few who appreciate trains but for most they would rather see a wall over enduring rail noise

 

[crs1026]

Excuse my speculation, but the Weston fatalities (which are so flippin' tragic, it deeply saddens me) seem to be misadventure. I don't know if slowly implementing noise walls against private backyards is going to have a huge impact on mitigating misadventure. If we want to do something of higher value to mitigate fatalities, I'd argue improved connections across long stretches of lines without crossings will do that. That's why I analyzed it.

I totally agree - it only takes one hole to enable people to reach the tracks, and if there is even a single hole then it will be used and fatalities will continue. We need crossings that do not become trespassing "holes"

One does see private homes that have created entries onto the row, some people have even appropriated bits of the row for gardening. So it is part of the risk level. The noise fences will put an end to that.

What was interesting to me was that these RTE's who travel the line regularly were themselves puzzled as to where the individuals could have gotten onto the tracks, because the fencing/walls are now that intensive. That in itself is a huge transformation from even a decade ago.

The significance of the noise walls is simply that, wherever they are employed, they do form a fairly impermeable part of the barrier, and that is a good thing - recognizing that their size is driven by noise abatement specs and not security as the first reason.

- Paul

 

[drum118]

Well... my response is explaining why noise walls are a necessity. Good that you're one of the few who appreciate trains but for most they would rather see a wall over enduring rail noise

Well!! It's the old story of buyer be aware. If you buy next to a rail corridor or a highway, you are going to hear noise 7/24 with it been louder at times and you are accepting the noise if you buy there.

In a lot of cases, they were sold on the idea that trains will disappear in the coming years by either the builder or the real estate agent. Again, not doing your homework for the area you are buying in is your problem 100%

I look at a townhouse complex on Hurontario St that were built at least 40 years ago and being dealing with traffic noise find, but wanted a noise wall when the LRT show up that will have less noise than traffic to the point, they are getting that wall. The front of the complex is 70' from the road edge and 90' from the ROW. The existing road today is seven lanes and was to be nine lanes down the road per a 1980 report for increasing traffic on it. Once the LRT is built, there will be four lanes of traffic.

 

[lenaitch]

After the recent double fatality near Weston, a couple GO RTE's of my acquaintance commented on how they seldom encounter trespassers in that zone any more, account much more seamless fencing than in past..... perhaps ML is in fact winning the battle on keeping people off the right of way.

All the same, that fencing is severe. No more so than the miles and miles of cuts and stonework that one sees riding the likes of British Rail (the scrap value of the metal fencing along British main lines must equal the market value of the Royal Family's jewelry collection!). Maybe a little fast-growing ivy will improve things.

Looking at @ProjectEnd's photos, I did wonder about the backyard with the double fence. I wonder if ML has ceded the little strip of land between the original homeowner's fence and the new ML fence. I wonder where the legal property line lies. If not the homeowner, who has responsibility for that little strip if, say, an animal nest or other infestation arrives? Did the property line move thanks to the fence?

If it were my home, I would certainly be mulling about what clandestine artwork or decoration might enliven that wall. A fake window with blue sky showing?

- Paul

I obviously don't know but would be very surprised if Metrolinx has legally ceded anything. The legal footwork involved with every bordering landowner would be daunting and expensive. The location of the soundwalls and the existing old fences may have no bearing on the actual property lines. A fence right on the property line legally imposes shared ownership and responsibility and it is not uncommon for fences, etc. to be installed completely on one side of the line. I suspect that Metrolinx has simply de facto ceded caring about what's on the other side yet retaining the legal title to both sides of the walls. I wouldn't be surprised that, over the years, bordering landowners tear down their back fences and simply assume the strip, grow grape vines or whatever. It might lead to a claim of adverse possession ('squatter's rights') but I'm not that up on the legalities of the concept.

Those soundwalls will no doubt have an impact beyond their intended purpose, such as heat reflection, sunlight, etc. Some may be beneficial, some not so much.

 

[Garuda]

I'm partly sorry to see all those noise walls going in (maybe ML wants the distinction of having the title for most noise walls as well as parking spaces? lol) as part of the charm of riding GO for me was always the ability to peer into all the backyards, no two of which were alike. the view is so much more bland with all those (quickly tagged) uniform walls. Riding 2WAD will be a bit like riding the subway in places.

However, more importantly, it's a sign that we are truly converting those old railway corridors to permanent urban transit infrastructure. In fifty years, people will wonder about the days when an old farmer's fence was all that delineated these lines.

Sic transit transit.

- Paul

Same here. I understand the noise issue but it's so cool to feel like you're stepping back in time to see all these backyards as you're rolling through.

 

[ProjectEnd]

I obviously don't know but would be very surprised if Metrolinx has legally ceded anything. The legal footwork involved with every bordering landowner would be daunting and expensive. The location of the soundwalls and the existing old fences may have no bearing on the actual property lines. A fence right on the property line legally imposes shared ownership and responsibility and it is not uncommon for fences, etc. to be installed completely on one side of the line. I suspect that Metrolinx has simply de facto ceded caring about what's on the other side yet retaining the legal title to both sides of the walls. I wouldn't be surprised that, over the years, bordering landowners tear down their back fences and simply assume the strip, grow grape vines or whatever. It might lead to a claim of adverse possession ('squatter's rights') but I'm not that up on the legalities of the concept.

Those soundwalls will no doubt have an impact beyond their intended purpose, such as heat reflection, sunlight, etc. Some may be beneficial, some not so much.

Precisely. What is Metrolinx going to do, periodic inspections of every neighbouring backyard to make sure nobody is encroaching? That's just not gonna happen.

 

[crs1026]

Precisely. What is Metrolinx going to do, periodic inspections of every neighbouring backyard to make sure nobody is encroaching? That's just not gonna happen.

No question, it's the pragmatic and common sense strategy..... all the same, everything I know about neighbour disputes says, a wise property owner makes sure their lot line is abundantly clear and not muddied by encroachment. Call me a worrier, but I bet there will be some interesting disputes or controversies in years ahead.

- Paul