Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[crs1026]

^ Plenty of things are moving, certainly. All the same I would sure like more confidence that every prerequisite project has been anticipated and planned and is in the works. ML has been "bringing you 2WAD service" for a lot of years now.

The electrification promise is the one that hangs over everything for Davenport. The current service plan is all that ML can run until that happens.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

There is no urgency for ML to move off the diamond so long as the service plan doesn't add more trains (CP may feel otherwise, but they are managing OK under the current service plan).

- Paul

Wouldn't the local residents want the trains to start using the Overpass to reduce the crossing noise and wouldn't there still be benefits to using it right away for certainty? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[crs1026]

Wouldn't the local residents want the trains to start using the Overpass to reduce the crossing noise and wouldn't there still be benefits to using it right away for certainty? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Getting rid of the diamond is good for other reasons, definitely. It will change the noise profile in the neighbourhood, and it lets the City get on with creating the linear park.

I was just trying to say that it does not improve things operationally for GO as no additional trains can be added just yet. That will be ML's prime motivator for finishing the project promptly.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Got it. But it may help to a degree operationally in terms of on-time performance if there's a slow freight on the diamond or a CP Rail train is running late? I don't take the Barrie Line a lot but it happened on my last two trips.

 

[smallspy]

I was just trying to say that it does not improve things operationally for GO as no additional trains can be added just yet. That will be ML's prime motivator for finishing the project promptly.

- Paul

Maybe......but maybe not.

Remember that promise that Metrolinx made to the people of Weston that all of the trains through there - once the work was done - would be using the 16 much vaunted Tier IV locomotives that were then on order? So yeah, about that....

I'm not sure that there is much point to putting any weight on any promise that Metrolinx makes, positive or negative. If they want to run half-hourly service on the line once its double-tracked, they will - regardless of the state of the electrification.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

Maybe......but maybe not.

Remember that promise that Metrolinx made to the people of Weston that all of the trains through there - once the work was done - would be using the 16 much vaunted Tier IV locomotives that were then on order? So yeah, about that....

I'm not sure that there is much point to putting any weight on any promise that Metrolinx makes, positive or negative. If they want to run half-hourly service on the line once its double-tracked, they will - regardless of the state of the electrification.

Dan

Yeah…. But the limit on trains has some legal weight in that it was a condition on which the EA was approved by a previous Minister. Messing with that decision could put the EA in question.

Undoing that would be like overriding the legislation preserving the Greenbelt, or imposing a collective agreement on a striking union, or overriding municipal zoning through ministerial orders, or undoing the contents of municipal Heritage Act registries.

Oh…….

Never mind.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

^ Got it. But it may help to a degree operationally in terms of on-time performance if there's a slow freight on the diamond or a CP Rail train is running late? I don't take the Barrie Line a lot but it happened on my last two trips.

Quite true.

Hey, it’s a good thing in its own right. I’m just saving the celebration for when service can actually be upgraded.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

Improved speeds could plausibly be a short-term benefit of the project. Currently there's a 45 mph (72 km/h) speed restriction over the diamond, while the track speed is 70 mph (112 km/h) immediately to the north of the project area, and 60 mph (97 km/h) immediately to the south. Will trains be able to travel through at 70 mph, or at least 60 mph, once they're moved onto the bridge?

The West Toronto Diamond does permit 70 mph (112 km/h) for passenger trains along the Weston corridor. That's still slower than the 80 mph (129 km/h) speed limit on either side of the underpass, but still a lot more than 45 mph.

 

[SkylineHorizon]

Improved speeds could plausibly be a short-term benefit of the project. Currently there's a 45 mph (72 km/h) speed restriction over the diamond, while the track speed is 70 mph (112 km/h) immediately to the north of the project area, and 60 mph (97 km/h) immediately to the south. Will trains be able to travel through at 70 mph, or at least 60 mph, once they're moved onto the bridge?

The West Toronto Diamond does permit 70 mph (112 km/h) for passenger trains along the Weston corridor. That's still slower than the 80 mph (129 km/h) speed limit on either side of the underpass, but still a lot more than 45 mph.

Hopefully but not necessarily... Go's first flyover(all the others are fly-unders) further up the line which goes over the York sub has a speed restriction of 45mph/72kph. I'm guessing that's due to the grade though, it appears the Davenport flyover approach is more gradual.

 

[Allandale25]

Metrolinx to share design updates for Davenport Diamond Greenway - Metrolinx News

Residents can register for the virtual open house on the Davenport Diamond Greenway project. Metrolinx will be sharing Davenport Diamond Greenway design updates at an upcoming virtual open house on Nov. 24, 2022. The Greenway will enhance the community experience with improved connections and...

blog.metrolinx.com

Posted today. Virtual meeting on November 24th. I don't see the deck yet.

 

[crs1026]

Hopefully but not necessarily... Go's first flyover(all the others are fly-unders) further up the line which goes over the York sub has a speed restriction of 45mph/72kph. I'm guessing that's due to the grade though, it appears the Davenport flyover approach is more gradual.

Once the stops at Bloor and Caledonia are added, 45 mph over the flyover won't be material to the timing.

Coming downhill to a dead stop in exactly the right spot at the platform at Bloor on the southbound run will be a skill-tester for the crews even at that speed.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Hopefully but not necessarily... Go's first flyover(all the others are fly-unders) further up the line which goes over the York sub has a speed restriction of 45mph/72kph. I'm guessing that's due to the grade though, it appears the Davenport flyover approach is more gradual.

Wouldn't the first one have been this? Although maybe it was built by TTR? cc @crs1026 @smallspy

 

[crs1026]

^I checked the Project EA. The drawings of the guideway (Pages 13-14) show values of 50 mph on the grades at both ends, 45 mph across the CP bridge, and 74 mph along the guideway itself.

These are likely design envelope (ie theoretical) maximums, which doesn't mean the actual permissible speed will be that high.

- Paul

PS - The EA drawings are informative because it's tempting to think of the guideway as level, with grades at each end. In fact, the whole guideway slopes upwards as it proceeds to the north. Even the bridge over CP is still sloping north. The crest of the grade is north of the CP line, then it drops sharply to meet the old line (which itself continues on a grade northwards to St Clair and beyond). The section north of the bridge is its own "down and up".

 

[reaperexpress]

Once the stops at Bloor and Caledonia are added, 45 mph over the flyover won't be material to the timing.

Coming downhill to a dead stop in exactly the right spot at the platform at Bloor on the southbound run will be a skill-tester for the crews even at that speed.

- Paul

Not all trains will stop at all stations.

 

[crs1026]

Not all trains will stop at all stations.

In saying that, I'm relying on the 2018 Business Case - which predates the Bloor station proposal - It implies everything will stop everywhere... until Rutherford anyways.

Is there a more recent source that adds express trains?

- Paul