Toronto gay pride denied federal funds

[Oliver Tweed]

How can it be? If one knows that someone is a bigot, and supports them for office, how can they not be a bigot? The trick is knowing ...

No, the trick is understanding why your argument is poor. I will tell you. Your argument is what's called a "fallacy of accident," or a generalization that disregards exceptions. There are many reasons someone might support the Conservatives, most of which have nothing to do with his or her opinions on homosexuality. Just supporting the Conservatives does not make someone anti-gay.

And by the way, simply tacking on something like "one can certainly not deny that..." before your point does not make it stronger. It makes it weaker.

 

[spider]

I have seen “bigot” used so often in this thread it is starting to look like punctuation, losing any weight the word should convey. Denying funding to Gay Pride is deemed to be bigotry of the worst order, is it?

Should Gay Pride be embraced as a celebration of a groups sexual inclination? Given that a persons sexual preferences are an innate proclivity assigned them at birth, as most of us believe, what is there to celebrate, do we celebrate being born left handed?

Should Gay Pride be funded because it generates a boost to the local economy, if so, we could do much better with public executions. Imagine drawing and quartering a Conservative hourly at the Rogers Centre. The crowds don’t come out to support the celebrants, they come out to laugh at them.

I find it amusing that the participants go to such outrageous lengths to demonstrate that they are most definitely not straight and complain the next day that they are accepted as queer, go figure.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Should Gay Pride be embraced as a celebration of a groups sexual inclination? Given that a persons sexual preferences are an innate proclivity assigned them at birth, as most of us believe, what is there to celebrate, do we celebrate being born left handed?

Celebrating the fact that in spite of the efforts of some to marginalize, discriminate and even exterminate, that we have survived and prevailed in the struggle to equity? I don't know about you, I think that's more of a cause for celebration than say certain activities undertaken by choice which involves a stick, net and considerable use of public funds to support.

Should Gay Pride be funded because it generates a boost to the local economy, if so, we could do much better with public executions. Imagine drawing and quartering a Conservative hourly at the Rogers Centre. The crowds don’t come out to support the celebrants, they come out to laugh at them.

Well, if only doing so is ethical and legal. That said, maybe we got the next best thing - re: stick and net analogy.

I find it amusing that the participants go to such outrageous lengths to demonstrate that they are most definitely not straight and complain the next day that they are accepted as queer, go figure.

Unless you are suggesting that our legal system should be treating individuals differently on the basis of how they're queer - and afterall, queer comes in many forms - and to me, you are definitely queer in the manner you meant it. I suppose seeing you getting quartered should prove amusing to me, no? Perish that thought, it stains horribly, and oh lord, the stench.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

No, the trick is understanding why your argument is poor. I will tell you. Your argument is what's called a "fallacy of accident," or a generalization that disregards exceptions. There are many reasons someone might support the Conservatives, most of which have nothing to do with his or her opinions on homosexuality. Just supporting the Conservatives does not make someone anti-gay.

If one is unaware of their extreme bigotry, perhaps not. But if one is aware of it, and chooses to ignore it, then yes, one is anti-gay. It is that simple. We are not talking taxation policy here, were are talking the ultimate in mankind's evil - hatred. It's an extremely bizarre and hateful move by Stephen Harper (and yes, I have no doubt he was fully aware of the "decision" of his ministers) - even the National Post is calling him on it ... my gosh, you know you've fallen off the right side when the National Post starts making noise!

And by the way, simply tacking on something like "one can certainly not deny that..." before your point does not make it stronger. It makes it weaker.

Only if one can deny ... I was merely trying to focus the point. How does that make the point weaker?

 

[GenerationW]

do we celebrate being born left handed?

Not until recently.

 

[gristle]

I find it amusing that the participants go to such outrageous lengths to demonstrate that they are most definitely not straight and complain the next day that they are accepted as queer, go figure.

I find it weird that in my lifetime gay people could lose their jobs if their sexual orientation was known. It wasn't all that long ago. But then that is relatively mild when compared to those times when homosexuality was viewed as an illness, affliction or simply an act of evil. I think it's great that a festival that celebrates one of the variations of humanity can be a huge success. Regardless of how blase some might feel about the whole thing, such an open celebration about sexual orientation is still quite new.

That being said, to this day there are still countries where being openly gay will result in derision, imprisonment and even death. As much fun as Pride is, the reality is that rights such as same-sex marriage are very new, certainly not universally accepted, and dangerous to health and well-being in many other parts of the world.

Pride is not so much just a tourist attraction as it is a celebration of cultural evolution. That evolution is on-going and should never be taken for granted.

 

[RapidTransit]

There should be a Black, Asian, Indian, ugly, etc parade too!

 

[Oliver Tweed]

If one is unaware of their extreme bigotry, perhaps not. But if one is aware of it, and chooses to ignore it, then yes, one is anti-gay. It is that simple. We are not talking taxation policy here, were are talking the ultimate in mankind's evil - hatred. It's an extremely bizarre and hateful move by Stephen Harper (and yes, I have no doubt he was fully aware of the "decision" of his ministers) - even the National Post is calling him on it ... my gosh, you know you've fallen off the right side when the National Post starts making noise!

Only if one can deny ... I was merely trying to focus the point. How does that make the point weaker?

I think you'll find that this issue is very low on the list of the most important issues for most Canadians. People are worried about their jobs, the economy, health care, safety and security, education, their ability to provide for their children, and so on. Funding for a gay pride parade in Toronto probably doesn't even register with many people. I'm not saying it's not important, but you have to look at the big picture and put it into perspective. People tend to vote for the party that speaks to them on the issues they care most about. It's clear that for you gay rights is a very big issue, so it's not surprising that you don't support the Conservatives. But it's not that way for everyone. To call every person who supports the Conservatives a bigot or anti-gay is wrong. Let's (hypothetically) say that you support the Liberals. There may be people out there that think you hate farmers or look down on rural Canadians as second class because of that. But it may not be true. Rural issues may just not be an issue that's on your radar.

 

[Roy G Biv]

So the National Post has decided that Parade funding was revoked because of the Queers Against Israeli Apartheid debacle last year. While it certainly was a debacle, to point to this as the reasoning for last week's announcement displays a real special sense of Zionistic narcissism only the NP could pull off. Well done NP!

 

[Tewder]

I don't think we should be reading too much into all of this. Are the Conservatives particularly friendly to gay issues? No. Are they super friendly to Toronto issues? No again. If there were more votes to be had there would be a steady stream of funding for these things no matter what the personal feelings of some Conservative members might be. After all, they didn't seem to mind holding their noses while cozying up to Quebec for votes!

All this 'Nazi'/racism hyperbole that gets tossed around here a little too gratuitously by some paranoid, judgemental UT members is beyond perverse, on so many levels... and how manipulative - not to mention politically opportunistic - it is to label somebody or some party as 'racist' or 'homophobic' or whatever else unless they agree to fund whatever it is you feel they should fund.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, it isn't like there are votes to be had in Quebec, and yet they are still cozying to them.

While I agree calling it Nazism is wild hyperbole, it is pretty undeniable that there is a homophobic element to the party. I mean, if not, how does one explain the Diane Albonzy episode? This is less about the funding per se but the gap between the stated rationale vs. practice. And funny you should mention manipulation and political opportunism considering what you've just said in the first paragraph. One can only wonder the motivations behind silent acceptance of such practice by the government (government!) implied in the former and vehement condemnation of interest groups in the latter. Please do educate me in the difference between the two stated groups, vis-a-vis ideals and practice in the public domain.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

Nope, I can't. I agree that it's all part and parcel of the same old stinky political mess... and I am the one calling for some sanity in this thread. I don't care if interest groups challenge this decision and I would agree with them in this case because I like Pride and think it is important... BUT calling all Conservatives racist Nazis is so unbelievable offensive that it deserves to be called out in any forum that hopes to maintain some semblance of balance, credibility or dignity.

 

[JasonParis]

At least our banks are still behind the gays...

 

[old boy]

Nope, I can't. I agree that it's all part and parcel of the same old stinky political mess... and I am the one calling for some sanity in this thread. I don't care if interest groups challenge this decision and I would agree with them in this case because I like Pride and think it is important... BUT calling all Conservatives racist Nazis is so unbelievable offensive that it deserves to be called out in any forum that hopes to maintain some semblance of balance, credibility or dignity.

Just call them boring and unimaginative , and leave it at that.

 

[Tewder]

lol... or well um' conservative, no?