Toronto Freed Hotel & Residences | 219m | 63s | Freed | AS + GG

AlbertC · May 13, 2024

Bring back Croc Rock on a short term lease!!

/kidding

(sort of)

ProjectEnd · May 13, 2024

Northern Light said:
While the demolition permits for all the properties are in place; there have been no 'new build' permits even applied for; given typical turnaround times, even if sales surprised to the upside, it will be at least several months.

That said, when @ProjectEnd stops by a thread to wish a fellow developer 'good luck' while clearly mocking their asking price per unit............ I would be inclined think sales here might be a tad slow.

dgto · May 13, 2024

allengeorge said:
Honestly, the best thing that could happen to the Toronto market is if investors weren’t able to load up on condos. I’m tired of seeing layouts that are completely non-functional for living.

I say this as someone who lived for a loooong time in a tiny studio. I really, really get that there is a market for small units - but the Freed layout is just unlivable IMO.

Small+ non-functional layouts are largely not a result of investor interest in the housing market, and these layouts will likely persist even if there is less investor capital going into new condo purchases.

A few main reasons why so many new apartments are small and layouts are bad:
- Condos are generally priced on a per square foot basis. When prices/ rents are high (as they have been for years, largely due to a severe housing shortage caused by long-standing zoning restrictions which limit new development), unit sizes get smaller so that they are within a range that people can potentially pay for. The rent/price that one would have to charge for larger units reduces the demand for them, and so apartment sizes get smaller.
- There are myriad zoning regulations and urban design guidelines that directly lead to poor layouts. For example, Toronto's Tall Building Design Guidelines limit floor plates for tall buildings to a maximum of 750 m2, and the City prefers that tall buildings are generally square-shaped to the extent possible. These restrictions make it very difficult to have good unit layouts. You can no longer build the large "slab-style" buildings that were built in earlier decades which generally had larger units with less wasted space.

Rascacielo · May 13, 2024

dgto said:
Small+ non-functional layouts are largely not a result of investor interest in the housing market, and these layouts will likely persist even if there is less investor capital going into new condo purchases.

A few main reasons why so many new apartments are small and layouts are bad:
- Condos are generally priced on a per square foot basis. When prices/ rents are high (as they have been for years, largely due to a severe housing shortage caused by long-standing zoning restrictions which limit new development), unit sizes get smaller so that they are within a range that people can potentially pay for. The rent/price that one would have to charge for larger units reduces the demand for them, and so apartment sizes get smaller.
- There are myriad zoning regulations and urban design guidelines that directly lead to poor layouts. For example, Toronto's Tall Building Design Guidelines limit floor plates for tall buildings to a maximum of 750 m2, and the City prefers that tall buildings are generally square-shaped to the extent possible. These restrictions make it very difficult to have good unit layouts. You can no longer build the large "slab-style" buildings that were built in earlier decades which generally had larger units with less wasted space.

While the 750 m2 limit (exceptions for larger floor plates have been granted) does affect layouts, I don't think the city prefers square-shaped buildings. Some under-construction/ recently completed slab-style buildings: JAC condos, 81 Wellesley East, Artistry Condos, 50 Scollard. Blame it on developers trying to squeeze in as many units as possible on a single floor.

Northern Light · May 13, 2024

dgto said:
Small+ non-functional layouts are largely not a result of investor interest in the housing market, and these layouts will likely persist even if there is less investor capital going into new condo purchases.

Disagree. Very few owner-occupiers are going to pay for such a space.

dgto said:
A few main reasons why so many new apartments are small and layouts are bad:
- Condos are generally priced on a per square foot basis. When prices/ rents are high (as they have been for years, largely due to a severe housing shortage caused by long-standing zoning restrictions which limit new development),

There has been and remains a compelling case for zoning reform but zoning restrictions in Toronto have not been a limiting factor on total units build or housing supply shortages.

Toronto has built more housing that just about any City in North America over the last 2 decades, and if that were assessed as percentage of existing unit totals we would almost certainly be number one. The industry (building) has been very fully maxed out in terms of labour and capital. Relaxed zoning might change what was built and where, but not total unit count.

dgto said:
unit sizes get smaller so that they are within a range that people can potentially pay for. The rent/price that one would have to charge for larger units reduces the demand for them, and so apartment sizes get smaller.

To a point. But there comes a point where no sane person will pay for 'x' even if you reduce the price to $8.99 all-in.

dgto said:
- There are myriad zoning regulations and urban design guidelines that directly lead to poor layouts. For example, Toronto's Tall Building Design Guidelines limit floor plates for tall buildings to a maximum of 750 m2, and the City prefers that tall buildings are generally square-shaped to the extent possible. These restrictions make it very difficult to have good unit layouts. You can no longer build the large "slab-style" buildings that were built in earlier decades which generally had larger units with less wasted space.

As pointed out by @Rascacielo above the City will indeed approve different floorplate shapes if given the right combination of reasons to do so.

In general, the City will oppose slab form outright if the orientation is east-west, as that leaves a vast area to the north in shadow most of the day, but is more open minded if the slab form is North-south in orientation.

The key is how you address shadowing, and wind.