Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

[skyrise]

My point is that the original vision that the city had in place for the entertainment district (maintaining a lowrise nature) is no longer valid as it is now a high rise area. Now every project is measured against the 157m Tiff precedent for height while more critical areas such as how each project meets the street, mix uses, retail are not focused on as much as the arbitrary height limit. Time to go back to the drawing board and redefine this highrise neighborhood and update the planning to look beyond height restriction. I agree with you that this is a political issue which I have already addressed. There is no vision for this neighborhood, its adhoc at best.
Keesmat has worked in several large cities on master planning, just not in the capacity of Chief Planner. So she does have varied experience. My error in not researching her more thoroughly.

 

[bmiller]

Rejecting this project outright will send a message no one on UT will like. You might be surprised how far it will reach. You can welcome mediocraty as a guest for dinner when that happens.

 

[adma]

^^^ Though I support M+G, the existing buildings aren't derelict, and the block you've highlighted isn't the one where these towers are proposed to be (except for the building on the very left).

Pwned;-)

 

[adma]

Rejecting this project outright will send a message no one on UT will like. You might be surprised how far it will reach.

No one?!? Never mind myself; I seem to have encountered a fair bit of "anti" or at least "let's not be hasty, doc" sentiment among other people simply in this thread, never mind UT at large.

You can welcome mediocraty as a guest for dinner when that happens.

Well, I'm presently encountering "mediocraty" in your spelling skills, let me tell you that.

 

[bmiller]

somebuddy needs a nap.

 

[anonymous0024]

somebuddy needs a nap.

Just a brilliant post. Didn't contribute anything at all to the conversation. Didn't address adma's observation about how, despite your uninformed hyperbole, there are indeed many people who fall into the "let's not be hasty camp", if not outright "anti." But nonetheless, just a great contribution there.

 

[skyrise]

Well, I'm presently encountering "mediocraty" in your spelling skills, let me tell you that.

Yeah you're right anonymous , because this comment deserves a intelligent informed response.

 

[anonymous0024]

You know precisely what I was referring to, and to say otherwise is disingenuous at best. I've no wish to sound as though I'm being unduly antagonistic, but adma raised a very legitimate concern to bmiller's ridiculously hyperbolic statement, and, rather than address it, he instead essentially decided to bury his head in the sand and disregard the substantive point adma was making (and it absolutely was an accurate observation), which ultimately debases further discourse and demonstrates an incapacity, on his part, for dealing with arguments that contradict his viewpoints.

No one?!? Never mind myself; I seem to have encountered a fair bit of "anti" or at least "let's not be hasty, doc" sentiment among other people simply in this thread, never mind UT at large.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Don't forget, Keesmaat/Planning can't really make a special exception for this project on the basis of architectural merit (which has no planning grounds) without creating a major precedent. In some ways her hands are pretty much tied by our planning legislations and the limitations placed upon it. I think we need to sit back and fundamentally rethink what we value in city building and reform our system so that it is flexible enough to reward excellence but at the same time, prevent the abuse of such a mechanism by mediocrity.

AoD

 

[Ramako]

Don't forget, Keesmaat/Planning can't really make a special exception for this project on the basis of architectural merit without creating a major precedent. In some ways her hands are pretty much tied by our planning legislations and the limitations placed upon it.

AoD

Exactly. There's no doubt that planning staff are going to recommend refusal. The question is whether council will ignore the recommendation given the unique merit of the project.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Ramako:

I think they should - it's a political decision - but one'd hope that we can rationalize the process of rewarding excellence in planning.

AoD

 

[waterloowarrior]

re: Heritage report

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2013.PB26.12
The Toronto Preservation Board deferred consideration of the report (October 22, 2013) from the Acting Director, Urban Design, City Planning Division, respecting "Demolition of Four Designated Heritage Properties - 266, 276, 284 and 322 King Street West" and advised the Toronto and East York Community Council of the action taken.

 

[adma]

somebuddy needs a nap.

Given how much of the evening was spent wading through 50+ pages of new Mayor Ford thread posts, the fact that I posted at 1:30 in the morning should be understandable at this point;-)

Oh, and re ridiculing Keesmaat as a yokel from Peterborough: I'm sure that had UT existed in the 70s, some pro-development types might have ridiculed Jane Jacobs as a yokel from Scranton;-)

 

[bmiller]

You desrve credit for getting through 10 pages of Mayor Ford posts, let alone 50.

 

[skyrise]

Oh, and re ridiculing Keesmaat as a yokel from Peterborough: I'm sure that had UT existed in the 70s, some pro-development types might have ridiculed Jane Jacobs as a yokel from Scranton;-)

Close, but I would say that I am pro-Toronto and pro-good development and pro-bringing Toronto into the 21st century. I would be happy if Mirvish and Gehry incorporated the warehouses into their design. But I know it is all irrelevant. Toronto is far too timid and provincial at the current moment to even understand what is at stake here.
This will inevitably be denied by the OMB and likely will not get approval from counsel. Mirvish will sell this block for 10's of millions of dollars and a greedy developer will build three 157m spandrel covered nightmares (God forbid a building surpass 157m because that is so critical to maintaining the low, I mean mid, ah wait a minute, high-rise nature of this neighborhood.) But the warehouses and Tim Hortens will remain, and we all know that is what the entertainment district is all about. Who wants to have a vibrant interactive podium with a renowned art school and museum that engages the public and would be a destination its own right. Not to mention the incredible architecture.
But all is not lost. This location will be rich in history for future generations as they revel at what could have been. Another addition to the "Unbuilt Toronto" legacy of the city that refused to think big, and grow up.
By the way, I hear Hamilton has an incredible stock of turn of the century warehouses for anyone interested in moving there. They also do not have any buildings over 157m so this seems to me to be an ideal location for the Nimbys to move to if, by some miracle, this project should proceed.