Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

I am ambivalent about this proposal. I can't help but feel that this project will bring too much residential density to an already (and increasingly) densely populated area. The infrastructure in King West is already under intense pressure. I like the street presence of the podium but three super tall residential towers seem excessive for this part of town. Then again, who knows what form this project will finally morph into if it is ever actually realized.
I would love to see Gehry design a mid rise project along one of Toronto's many neglected main streets (eg. Gerrard East, Queen East, Dundas, Bathurst, Bloor West, there are dozens to choose from) in hopes that it would kick start mid rise development outside of the downtown core. Development which, in my view, is much needed.
 
I love the proposal. I love Gehry. I hope they build it. But not without proper consideration to infrastructure. It should be obvious to everyone King St needs a major transit overhaul ASAP, but fewer can speak on the matter of water/hydro/telecom. I can only think of setting the direction of car traffic and giving dedicated ROW to streetcars on King and Queen. Since DRL is not budget to be built for another 25 years, I believe that would be a reasonable temporary fix.
 
Dr. Sara Diamond, the President and Vice-Chancellor of OCAD, talks about her school's part in Mirvish+Gehry on our front page.

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Not that this will completely solve the infrastructure issues, but once the new streetcars are in service there should be possibility for increased transit capacity along King.
 
ttk77 said:
Not that this will completely solve the infrastructure issues, but once the new streetcars are in service there should be possibility for increased transit capacity along King.
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You are right. Though proximity to St Andrew station and the King streetcar (new or old), will certainly lessen the project's impact on traffic, the reality is that if even one third of these new residents drive, traffic will get MUCH worse. Factoring in all the other developments in the entertainment district makes me think that traffic in the area will already be at a critical mass long before shovels are in the ground for Gehry+Mirvish.
 
That stretch of the Entertainment District is looking at multiple new condos, which taken as a whole probably makes the project a relatively minor contributor of traffic on the basis of the number of units. Besides, when traffic is already saturated (which it is at certain periods of time), adding to it won't make anything worse.

AoD
 
NYC=forest of skyscrapers=standard traffic
LA=mostly 1 & 2 story buildings=insane traffic
People who spend their day in the downtown core are less likely to drive if they live in a nearby condo tower.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That stretch of the Entertainment District is looking at multiple new condos, which taken as a whole probably makes the project a relatively minor contributor of traffic on the basis of the number of units. Besides, when traffic is already saturated (which it is at certain periods of time), adding to it won't make anything worse.

AoD
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That's true, but if the additional people (the area is set to have 2-3x more people than today) don't drive, then they'll probably take transit, or maybe bike or walk, and I don't know if the area's transit can handle that kind of increase. The area between University, Queen, Front and Bathurst will probably add around 30,000 people if all the current projects get built, with another 10,000 or so around CityPlace/Fort York, and another 10,000 or so around Liberty Village/W Queen W Triangle. Most of these people will be employed, so if a good chunk take transit to work, and transit back home, and maybe for the odd trip or two, that's several tens of thousands of new transit trips in the area. King Streetcar is I believe around 50,000 rides per day. I think this area will need a King streetcar ROW and 1-2 new GO stations to handle the growth.
 
If traffic does in fact come to a breaking point, it will probably be time to take cars out of the equation. They take up too much space that would be better utilized by transit, cyclists, and pedestrians. I can see streets like King with a light right ROW, perhaps a bike lane or cycle track, and wide sidewalks. Even with a new downtown subway line, we'll have to move away from car-accommodating traffic planning for efficient transportation downtown.
 
Memph:

I think it's a bit more complicated than simply adding the total numbers up though - one really have to look at the more micro level commuting patterns of individuals living in these clusters you've identified to come to a judgement. My personal gut feeling is that you'd probably see more of an impact on transit capacity adding people in LV, Fort York, WQW than the Mirvish site.

AoD
 
Memph said:
That's true, but if the additional people (the area is set to have 2-3x more people than today) don't drive, then they'll probably take transit, or maybe bike or walk, and I don't know if the area's transit can handle that kind of increase. The area between University, Queen, Front and Bathurst will probably add around 30,000 people if all the current projects get built, with another 10,000 or so around CityPlace/Fort York, and another 10,000 or so around Liberty Village/W Queen W Triangle. Most of these people will be employed, so if a good chunk take transit to work, and transit back home, and maybe for the odd trip or two, that's several tens of thousands of new transit trips in the area. King Streetcar is I believe around 50,000 rides per day. I think this area will need a King streetcar ROW and 1-2 new GO stations to handle the growth.
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I agree. Being a king west resident I wish a ROW was already in place. Going east in the morning I routinely have to let a streetcar or 2 go by because its too full (and I get on at Strachan). When I'm lucky enough to get on one it is usually full by Bathurst or Portland and then it often can't let anyone on until St. Andrew.
 
By infrastructure I'm including schools, green space (parks and squares), community centers, clinics, hospital capacity, pedestrian traffic (sidewalk capacity), emergency services such as police, fire and ambulance service, hydro substations. Public transit is the obvious deficiency but not the only one.
 
Actually, this topic should be a separate thread. With all this construction concentrated within a relatively short distance, we will desperately need not just better transportation, but shopping malls, grocery stores, schools, and hospitals. I work in St Mikes, I can tell you from first hand experience, our volumes have increased over 100% in the last decade alone, due to an influx of people now living in these new condos. According to a recent study commissioned by the hospital, this constantly increasing influx of people will push our system over the edge. What once was a one or two month wait for a simple thing, like an MRI, 10 years ago, is now over a year and a half wait. Most downtown hospitals, as most of you know, have added or will be, new additions, but it's still not enough. Yes, it's terrific to see ok these exciting new and recently completely projects, but what's the point if there are no new services being built along with it! If things remain unchanged, I can see many leaving for areas that have better services.
 
To chime in on the topic of on the effects of downtown development on TTC capacity, this 2011 study provides some fascinating insight:

http://www.investtoronto.ca/InvestAssets/PDF/living_in_downtown_and_the_centres.pdf

According to the study, 74 percent of downtown residents work downtown. Additionally, 46 percent of downtown residents walk to work or school while 29 percent rely on public transit. Keep in mind that new residents to an area don't appear out of nowhere. According to the same study, about a third of downtown's new residents relocated from other areas of Toronto outside the downtown core, where they were more likely to drive or take transit to work.

It's a mistake to conclude the impact on transit infrastructure by sole looking at the number of units proposed. The transportation modal breakdown and previous travel patterns should be taken into consideration.
 
If one of the towers ends up looking like this, i'd be happy!: (heck, we should just buy the design from New York since they have trouble getting it built!)

56 Leonard:
56_leonard_street_01.jpg
 
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