Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

[Lenser]

Well said, Tewder.

 

[mrxbombastic]

Yes, we will get an art gallery but it will be a fraction of the the world class gallery originally proposed - a "seven eleven" of contemporary / abstract art. It could have been something, now it will be a store front.

I dont mean to offend, but i find this laughable. Before, the gallery would have been a room in a podium which people would have to navigate to find. Now however, the gallery has a prominent corner facing address with which it can promote it self on two sides now versus being overshadowed by an extravagantly superfluous podium cladding. The building within can be completely customized to the specs needed for the gallery and additional space has been added on top to provide ample room for mirvish to display his collection.

I personally think that the juxtaposition of a modern/contemporary art gallery inside a warehouse is always enjoyable and adds a layer of depth to the experiencing of the art in the gallery.

 

[freshcutgrass]

You guys are a tad over the top. You do realize the Aga Khan Museum moved to Toronto because London wouldn't let them do what they wanted right? We are not the only ones.

Ironically, the city allowed the total demolition of Parkin's 1965 Bata Building (identified by the Toronto Society of Architects as one of 96 significant buildings and public spaces in Toronto built between 1953 and 2003).

This is just another obvious example of how out to lunch the city is when it comes to prioritizing what constitutes "heritage protection".

 

[maestro]

I think it will happen. A project like this is going to get a lot of international publicity. Toronto is north america's boom city, everything is filmed here, and its a project like this that's going to attract big names, celebrities, producers, investors etc. May sound silly to some but I work in the area and see Holly wood actors/ film production crews etc all the time, and they often talk about how they are looking for property since they are here so often and are tired of renting out of places like the Soho where they cannot decorate. This is exactly the kind of place people like that would want to buy. Not Pinnacle on Adelaide.

Think the project will garner attention but, will it be enough? If sales ever get going, think it will have a huge opening but die down very quickly. Developers spend years massaging relationships with international investors. Sales are one thing too. Getting this built is something entirely different. Projectcore (Mirvish) has little experience with an architect known to have large cost overruns. Don't see anyone lining up to build or finance his vision.

 

[freshcutgrass]

I dont mean to offend, but i find this laughable. Before, the gallery would have been a room in a podium which people would have to navigate to find.

Before you start calling other people's comments laughable, perhaps you should do a little research first.

I personally think that the juxtaposition of a modern/contemporary art gallery inside a warehouse is always enjoyable and adds a layer of depth to the experiencing of the art in the gallery.

That's fantastic. When the time comes when you want to design and pay for a gallery to house your world-class art collection, feel free to to that.

 

[Forgotten]

Jennifer Keesmaat became Chief Planner in 2012. What in the world are you talking about?

It wouldn't be a leap to suggest if she had become the chief planner a few years earlier Toronto might have ended up in the same boat as London. The irony as brought up by someone else is the Bata building would have been more worthy of a discussion than a Tim Horton's.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I also agree with Tewder's argument. Mirvish is free to do what he wants with his art collection and any outcome that happens can only be described as his and his designers choice.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It wouldn't be a leap to suggest if she had become the chief planner a few years earlier Toronto might have ended up in the same boat as London. The irony as brought up by someone else is the Bata building would have been more worthy of a discussion than a Tim Horton's.

Let's get real here, the issue with M+G isn't just the removal of heritage structures (just like the proponent wasn't proposing to replace Bata with a St. Jamestown scaled development).

AoD

 

[Uptowner]

... so let me understand what you're saying: on the one hand Mirvish is a visionary genius who will put Toronto on the map, on the other hand he cannot decide for himself how best to develop his property? Look, if Mirvish wanted to retain an art gallery at the original conceptual size he would have. He and Gehry are the ones opting to pare it back to 'roof top' size, and to think they don't have their own reasons for doing so is silly. Ditto the Princess of Wales and the third tower! If they truly wanted the original preliminary design concept they would have wrangled further, or they are just about the most tame and docile developers this city has ever seen!

Characterizing the issues here as 'historic hoopla' really misses the point. This isn't about History at all, it's about the rich fabric of the existing urban realm here, and the deliberate design decision to take advantage of this asset, layering it further for density, creating a dialogue between old and new, and leaving the legacy of an even more interesting streetscape along King. I'm not suggesting that a clean-slate approach isn't ever the right way to go (sorry Stollery), only that it may come down to a choice between good options... and this is Mirvish's choice here. This, along with saving an amazing performing arts centre while still adding other cultural facilities is win/win in anybody's book.

...and let's not forget the new public space they will be creating: This alone underscores the Mirvish/Gehry priority of respecting while enhancing the public realm, preserving the layers of history and heritage already established here by his family. A clear-cut/bulldozed approach may have its merits too - differing ones - but obviously doesn't offer the advantages he has come to favour... and I'm pretty sure Mirvish knows best what's best for Mirvish.

Thank you very much for this extremely thoughtful and no doubt time consuming contribution. It undoubtedly elevates the discussion on this board and is an example most of us would do well to learn from.

 

[someMidTowner]

It wouldn't be a leap to suggest if she had become the chief planner a few years earlier Toronto might have ended up in the same boat as London.

No, it would be a huge misguided leap to suggest that.

 

[salsa]

Thank you very much for this extremely thoughtful and no doubt time consuming contribution. It undoubtedly elevates the discussion on this board and is an example most of us would do well to learn from.

Until next week, when this debate restarts all over again.

 

[freshcutgrass]

It wouldn't be a leap to suggest if she had become the chief planner a few years earlier Toronto might have ended up in the same boat as London. The irony as brought up by someone else is the Bata building would have been more worthy of a discussion than a Tim Horton's.

To be clear, London lost because Kings College simply decided to sell their 1.8 acre site to the adjacent hospital for expansion, rather than to the Aga Khan....it had nothing to do with any London city planning.

The Aga Khan Museum sits on a 17 acre site...it's not like designing the complex couldn't have incorporated the Bata Building, yet I don't think the City even considered this. To be sure, I think we still netted out ahead with this major cultural centre and first rate architecture. But the Bata Building was far more valuable an asset to fuss over than anything on the Mirvish site (except the Royal Alex of course), yet we waste time on crap that isn't worth the fuss (Stollerys is an almost laughable example of wasted energy)

 

[Lenser]

No energy wasted on this thread, however.

 

[junctionist]

Given that we still lose heritage assets every year, it's understandable that people react the way they do to seemingly every demolition of an old building. The protections and resources just aren't there at city hall to do all the work that's needed in heritage preservation, so laypeople feel they have to take it on themselves. Heritage protection needs to be forward-thinking and predictable.

 

[freshcutgrass]

The protections and resources just aren't there at city hall to do all the work that's needed in heritage preservation

There would be if they concentrated on the stuff that actually justifies the effort. And if someone thinks the Eclipse White Wear warehouse and Stollery store are what's worth expending limited resources on then they should be fired and replaced with people who might have some actual talent in the area. Talent...some people actually have it....they can be sought out and hired. Just a tad light on it at City Hall, that's all.

In fact, we have our wonderful City Hall because they did exactly that.