Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

[CapitalSeven]

Its a joke that some people here are in favour of a bunch of old average warehouses over this world class development...truthfully they're not happy with anything that might change the face of this city

That's offensive nonsense, at the Rob Ford level of argument. It's perfectly possible to want to see change and progress without sanctioning even more demolition of the past.

The point is that there are other places to redevelop and increase density without bulldozing whole blocks of heritage property and ignoring the planning framework. And there are lots of buildings that really everyone would be happy to see go. That these folks don't own them should not be what decides the question.

 

[egotrippin]

I totally agree with the last few comments. Can anyone here name a single proposal in Canada or even the US that is as interesting as this one?
I just got back from a trip to Rome, and after seeing 2000 year old buildings, the value of a 100 year old cubic warehouse seems ridiculous to me.

Those buildings were only 100 years old at one point too. What's your point?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

These are all non-issues and have been addressed ad nauseam, in order:

- sidewalks will be much wider than currently
- most residents will either walk to work, walk to Union Station or travel opposite to the TTC flow. In other words they place less pressure on transit than development elsewhere.
- sewage & electrial systems - the city needs to keep up, they have 5-10 years to get their act together
- As mentionned = fewer vehicles
- Schools - no comment
- Entertainment?? Policing?? Are you kidding me, how is this a problem?

Stop throwing the kitchen sink at this one.

I totally agree with you and I 110% support the M + G proposal. All of the density complains about the M+G project are utter nonsense. I was just trying to explain to Usahid that when people do complain about density, it's usually not the skyline aesthetics they have an issue with.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The point is that there are other places to redevelop and increase density without bulldozing whole blocks of heritage property and ignoring the planning framework. And there are lots of buildings that really everyone would be happy to see go. That these folks don't own them should not be what decides the question.

It's not as if these warehouses are being demolished to put up yet another mediocre glass box or a parking lit. If it were, then I could understand the criticism. But it's very obvious that M+G will contribute infinitely more to the heritage and identity of Toronto than these warehouses ever will. These are buildings that will go down in history and be hailed for centuries as an example of great architecture, designed by one of Toronto's own. Can the same be said about these warehouses?

The ironic thing about this is that if M+G were just another anonymous mediocre glass box, I guarantee there wouldn't be nearly as many people whining about the loss of these buildings and there wouldn't be a quarter of the media coverage this is getting. But I suppose that's what happens when someone proposes something spectacular for this city.

Next time if Projectcore wants to make a quick buck, they should save themselves the headache and just build another cheap, unspectacular glass box. And if they must, rip out the soul of the heritage buildings with another facade. That will keep everyone nice and quiet.

 

[isaidso]

^so now you don't care about the beloved historic office building being torn down for the richmond adelaide centre that you have complained about multiple times because Gehry said nothing in this city was worth preserving other than Osgoode hall and Old City Hall?

What a bizarre thing to say. I still care about the Concourse Building and it has zero to do with Gehry. Do you honestly think I'm in favour of/against a proposal because someone said so? I look at every proposal based on its own merits.

Btw, if you bothered to read the entire conversation with Gehry he was referring to buildings in that neighbourhood, not Toronto. Please get your facts straight first. I doubt you appreciate when people twist your words around; don't do it to others.

 

[junctionist]

The Distillery District is quite beautiful as a collection of restored warehouses and contemporary towers. If the towers in the Distillery District were designed by Gehry, as they could be among the warehouses at this location, it would be even more spectacular. To look at a streetscape and see the development of a city over centuries is more interesting than one ultra-modern landmark alone.

 

[isaidso]

Has any consideration been given to moving these warehouses somewhere else? We take down and rebuilt fairly large buildings all the time: Bay-Adelaide, 100 Adelaide West, and even that 3 floor brick building next to Shangri-La. Surely a proposal of this scale would be able to finance such a thing.

It would be a shame to lose these warehouses, so rebuild them in another part of town where they will be more appreciated. Places like the West Donlands, East Bayfront, and Portlands would benefit tremendously from those warehouses.

 

[maestro]

It's not as if these warehouses are being demolished to put up yet another mediocre glass box or a parking lit. If it were, then I could understand the criticism. But it's very obvious that M+G will contribute infinitely more to the heritage and identity of Toronto than these warehouses ever will. These are buildings that will go down in history and be hailed for centuries as an example of great architecture, designed by one of Toronto's own. Can the same be said about these warehouses?

The ironic thing about this is that if M+G were just another anonymous mediocre glass box, I guarantee there wouldn't be nearly as many people whining about the loss of these buildings and there wouldn't be a quarter of the media coverage this is getting. But I suppose that's what happens when someone cardproposes something spectacular for this city.

Next time if Projectcore wants to make a quick buck, they should save themselves the headache and just build another cheap, unspectacular glass box. And if they must, rip out the soul of the heritage buildings with another facade. That will keep everyone nice and quiet.

It's a piece of paper with images of towers that greatly exceed the zoning for the neighourhood. On top of that, the proposal includes the wanton destruction of buildings deemed to have heritage value. With that said, those aren't necessary the key concern. The biggest concern of all is if Mirvish can pull if off as presented. Rezoning is a blip compared to getting the project built.

The media attention is in part to Mirvish. One of his former "visionary" partners had a very similar approach. His visions tended to bankrupt people more often than not. I believe he's now converting a heritage building into apartments somewhere in Hamilton one nail at a time.

 

[picard102]

It would be a shame to lose these warehouses

Why?

 

[maestro]

To move the buildings would be in the ten of millions. It's not realistic particularly when Mirvish sold most of his available property. Bathurst and Bloor would have been ideal.

 

[salsa]

The Distillery District is quite beautiful as a collection of restored warehouses and contemporary towers. If the towers in the Distillery District were designed by Gehry, as they could be among the warehouses at this location, it would be even more spectacular. To look at a streetscape and see the development of a city over centuries is more interesting than one ultra-modern landmark alone.

It's incredible that this city allows a bunch of glass towers to be built in the middle of a historic district. Imagine how ridiculous it would look if old Montreal or Quebec city did the same thing. Some places should simply be left untouched.

 

[syn]

Architects are almost always expected to work with what they're given. Many of Toronto's biggest projects that involved demolishing heritage buildings didn't really require the demolition of those buildings. The Registry Building was demolished for a parking garage ramp that could have gone anywhere. The Bank of Toronto Building at King and Bay was replaced by a single storey pavilion--not much different from what was there before. No one would have said 'these Mies van der Rohe buildings would be more enjoyable if this beautiful Beaux Arts bank weren't standing next to them'. Heritage buildings make everything better. Gehry's project will be weaker without the heritage buildings.

You make some good points here.

Toronto has done such an incredibly poor job of preserving it's heritage it's no surprise people are so concerned.

 

[Big Daddy]

That's offensive nonsense, at the Rob Ford level of argument. It's perfectly possible to want to see change and progress without sanctioning even more demolition of the past.

The point is that there are other places to redevelop and increase density without bulldozing whole blocks of heritage property and ignoring the planning framework. And there are lots of buildings that really everyone would be happy to see go. That these folks don't own them should not be what decides the question.

So what? you can't develop what you don't own.

 

[Wrenkin]

It's incredible that this city allows a bunch of glass towers to be built in the middle of a historic district. Imagine how ridiculous it would look if old Montreal or Quebec city did the same thing. Some places should simply be left untouched.

Uhh, obviously you are unfamiliar with the destruction of Montreal's Golden Mile...

 

[syn]

Has any consideration been given to moving these warehouses somewhere else? We take down and rebuilt fairly large buildings all the time: Bay-Adelaide, 100 Adelaide West, and even that 3 floor brick building next to Shangri-La. Surely a proposal of this scale would be able to finance such a thing.

It would be a shame to lose these warehouses, so rebuild them in another part of town where they will be more appreciated. Places like the West Donlands, East Bayfront, and Portlands would benefit tremendously from those warehouses.

I asked the same thing. Those waterfront locations would be fanstastic locations for these buildings.