Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

I don't see why the city should dictate whether there is a theatre in the complex - that's David Mirvish's line of business, and if he has a need for it I am sure it will be in his own interest to build a new one. No need to saddle on a requirement that might sink this project. Besides, it isn't like the city exactly doing that great job with all the theatre space it has. Frankly, the increased use of Ed Mirvish and Elgin/Wintergarden as a result of this move might prove to be beneficial to revitalizing Yonge.

AoD
 
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Something to consider: by the time this all navigates bureaucracy and sales and gets built we're probably looking at a decade between now and opening day of the final tower and podium. There's no sensitive way to put this but will Gehry be around when this is finished and will it still be considered a Gehry building if he doesn't see it through to the end with all the mid-project intricacies that a project of this size involves?

In 10 years, Frank Gehry will be 93.
 
With all this that I'm hearing that the Princess Of Wales Theatre was not built for long term.. maybe it needs extensive repairs in the near future that makes just cheaper to tear it down then repair it.
 
MetroMan:

Well, Viljo Revell died before the New City Hall opened - it is still his building. And let's not forget other examples - Jorn Utzon actually quit/got fired before Sydney Opera House got completed; Barcelona is still in the process of building Sagrada Familia what, 80+ years after Gaudi's death...with the new builds based on out of nothing but some rough sketches/blueprints/models and a whole lot of "interpretations" as well. Gehry's age is precisely why the city must make haste to at least commit to the project.

Come to think of it, it might just be our Sagrada Familia...

AoD
 
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MetroMan said:
. There's no sensitive way to put this but will Gehry be around when this is finished and will it still be considered a Gehry building if he doesn't see it through to the end with all the mid-project intricacies that a project of this size involves?
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Huh, Viljo Revell didnt get to see the new City Hall, but its still a Viljo Revell building...you design it, it gets approved and built, and its yours. Hahaha, isnt that the rule.
 
Good points Alvin. I thought about Gaudi as I posted my thoughts. Hadn't thought of the obvious Viljo Revell example.

Given the scope of this project and liklihood that he will be closely involved at all stages, this could very well be Gehry's last project. On the other hand, because Gehry will probably open an office in Toronto, we might see him working on at least one more project here in the meantime. Didn't Gehry say he wanted to build something on Toronto's waterfront?

Maybe he'll throw a bone to WaterfronToronto and offer his services on a prominent project. Maybe a Pritzker Pavilion for the foot of a Yonge St. pier?
 
MetroMan:

Just a pavilion? I was hoping for something like his failed proposal for the New York Guggenheim...though of course, copying that won't be quite "Toronto". And wasn't there some talk of Gehry working on a cafe at Grange Park and some eye clinic thingy?

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
MetroMan:

Just a pavilion? I was hoping for something like his failed proposal for the New York Guggenheim...though of course, copying that won't be quite "Toronto". And wasn't there some talk of Gehry working on a cafe at Grange Park and some eye clinic thingy?

AoD
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will there be a cafe at Grange Park?
he killed the old one with the remodel of AGO and I heard the family that donated the land in the first place was furious.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
MetroMan:

Well, Viljo Revell died before the New City Hall opened - it is still his building. And let's not forget other examples - Jorn Utzon actually quit/got fired before Sydney Opera House got completed; Barcelona is still in the process of building Sagrada Familia what, 80+ years after Gaudi's death...with the new builds based on out of nothing but some rough sketches/blueprints/models and a whole lot of "interpretations" as well. Gehry's age is precisely why the city must make haste.

Come to think of it, it might just be our Sagrada Familia...

AoD
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I was just thinking that this proposal looks like a futuristic Gaudi design.
 
Peepers said:
The notion that the work of one of the greatest architects of our time (maybe the greatest?) would have to be submitted to a design review panel made up of local architects - none of whom have received world acclaim for their work - strikes me as ridiculous.
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Gehry isn't above criticism - even the greatest architects need to have their work reviewed.

MetroMan said:
The City could put up a little fake fight and come out with a redeveloped David Pecaut Square and Canada's Walk of Fame to show for it and everybody would be happy.
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Community benefits like that don't come from the City "putting up a fight". They come from Official Plan policies allowing development to be bigger than normally permitted if community benefits are provided (to the satisfaction of the City of course).
 
266 plates?
if true, 100s. should be easy to achieve in this combination, complemented by a 90 and 76.
I hope Gehry will opt for some height variety in this set.
 
I find it hard to get excited by all this.

Let's remember the process on the Westinghouse site and that the following facts for that site also applies to this:

1. David Mirvish is not a developer; neither he nor his associate Peter Kofman have the expertise (nor financial capability) to develop, market and construct a project of this scale;
2. He sold the Westinghouse site for these very reasons (having little appetite to joint-venture with another developer following the Stinson fiasco);
3. On the Westinghouse site, he hired a high-profile architect (KPMB) and promised some cultural benefits (a Theatre Museum) in order to achieve his rezoning and deal with heritage issues;
4. Upon completion of the rezoning of the Westinghouse site, he sold it at an extraordinarily high price, to a developer (who then replaced KPMB with Page and Steele).

I believe that this is purely a real-estate play to maximize the value of the land and then sell it. Someone will have to pay for the museums, galleries and extras and the cost of these will be factored into the land price. On top of that, assuming that any zoning achieved on the site will be tied to using Frank Gehry, the "Gehry-factor" will have to be considered as well (a bait-and-switch like on the Westinghouse site will be unlikely).

In the end, the whole concept is premised upon a thriving condo market and the confidence of a third-party developer in building 2,600 units in this location, in incredibly expensive towers, and in paying the land price needed to cover the costs mentioned above.
 
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