TORONTO FISCAL CRUNCH (plus Toronto Council video)

[The Mississauga Muse]

Hey there, TOers.

Seems Mississauga dumped all over Toronto Council on Wednesday and well, I'd like some perspective on things.

I found this YouTube video of Toronto Council discussing the fiscal situation. It features Councillor Michael Walker. All I know about him is what I've heard in this video (and a couple others of him).

Here's the link to "Michael Walker - Priorities for the City under Budget Crisis"

In this video I was stunned to hear him say:

""And so we need that debate with the people that we represent --the PEOPLE! You- some of you people hold that in comtempt! I've had-seen councillors --I've heard them, 'Oh Walker stop using those terms.' It's time that we go out and find out what they really want --what they are really concerned about.""

Please forgive me for asking this question --I know people are going to think I'm just beyond-redemption-cynical. Anyone know this councillor enough to know if he really believes what he says or is puttin' on a great show?

Thanks.

The Mississauga Muse
MISSISSAUGA MUSINGS Blog

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Here's part of my reason for asking the previous question:

TORONTO'S FISCAL CRISIS
A broadside from 905

Some Mississauga councillors, fed up with Toronto's pleas, point out taxes are much higher in the 905
Aug 02, 2007 04:30 AM
Phinjo Gombu
STAFF REPORTER

Toronto's financial crisis spilled over into Mississauga council yesterday, where some councillors in the GTA's second-largest city lashed out at Toronto's seeming inability to put its financial house in order.

Remarks by Councillors Maja Prentice, Carolyn Parrish and Eve Adams were sparked by review of a letter from Doug Reycraft, president of the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, explaining how Toronto's problems weren't unique.

Prentice said that during a recent meeting of the Toronto Region Conservation Authority, Toronto councillors were seeking ways to cut the budget so as to reduce the amount the city would need to contribute next year, given their budget constraints.

Several councillors from the suburban regions quickly killed that idea, she said, by reminding their Toronto counterparts of how their citizens pay significantly higher tax rates and complaining that Toronto has been irresponsible by refusing to hike taxes to the same degree.

That prompted each of the three councillors to air their choice complaints about Toronto.

Councillor Maja Prentice: The city should raise property taxes

Prentice is miffed that Toronto has failed to raise property taxes at the same rate as Mississauga.

"If you recall, going back about 15 years ago, the regional portion of (Mississauga's) bill was increased by 18 per cent to provide for a waste management reserve we have been working with ever since . ...

"I can't believe looking at the real estate pages in Toronto where they talk about the houses that are for sale. They are sometimes a million and a half, $2 million, and they are paying less in taxes than someone who owns a house in Mississauga that is valued at $500,000. ...

"If they were taxing according to what in fact the property assessment is, (Toronto) they wouldn't be in the position they are in today.

"I just want to express the fact that I have very little sympathy and I will be darned if I will sit on any board or authority that will cut back on the work that they need to do ... because Toronto is in trouble.

"Toronto needs to raise taxes and they need to get on with their life ... I think more of us need to say it more forcefully."

Councillor Eve Adams: Toronto enjoys `gold-plated' service level

Adams expressed frustration with the high level of services Toronto offers residents in comparison to the regions, and shock at Toronto's fair-wage policy, which binds outside contractors to a city-set pay scale.

"Apparently the City of Toronto will ensure that if any work is done by an outside contractor, that contractor is paid the same amount of money that city staff would have been paid.

"Paying them that kind of premium costs them $200 million, and that's what Peel residents have been subsidizing.

And here's the Star on Mississauga Councillor Carolyn Parrish:

Councillor Carolyn Parrish: `We have helped (Toronto) out considerably and no one talks about it'

Parrish is angry the GTA's suburban regions have been forced for years to pool part of their property revenues ($200 million) to help pay for social services in Toronto. The province decided this year to end the practice, but hasn't set a date when the money will stop flowing.

"For a very long time, we have been doing what we call the `Toronto tax.' We (Peel, Halton, Durham and York) have collected and sent down to Toronto $200 million every year for the last six or seven years, and no one talks about it.

"We have helped them out considerably and no one talks about it.

"The province gave them what they asked for, which was the ability to levy taxes, and what happened two weeks ago? They chickened out, they didn't levy their taxes.

"Councillor Prentice is absolutely correct. They need to tighten their belts, bring their houses up to proper market value assessment, put them in perspective with the rest of us and start raising homeowners' taxes ...

"The 905 has a newer infrastructure, no question ... but we also have the same problem that teenagers have, we've grown very, very quickly and that in itself causes lots of costly problems.

"We've been dealing with our problems and we've been helping (Toronto) involuntarily.

"Now it's time for us to say, we sympathize 100 per cent, but we are not cutting back programs now to save money.

"We've already sent you millions and millions of dollars, and you are still whining. ...

"I hope we keep hammering home to people out there that 905 raises taxes, they put money aside for future replacement of infrastructure, and we also tax people in a fair and equitable way. We don't go whining off to the province."

Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
MISSISSAUGA MUSINGS Blog

 

[syn]

"I hope we keep hammering home to people out there that 905 raises taxes, they put money aside for future replacement of infrastructure, and we also tax people in a fair and equitable way. We don't go whining off to the province."

If I recall McCallion has been quite supportive in the fight for more municipal funding by higher levels of government. I guess it's not "whining" if she does it though...

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And I wonder Mississauga/Brampton (Peel); Richmond Hill/Vaughn/Markham (York) and Pickering/Whitby/Ajax (Durham) have their pro rata share of social housing, people living below the poverty line, etc?

AoD

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

"TORONTO FISCAL CRUNCH"

that's one candy bar that 'ill leave a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[JasonParis]

Three points...

1.) Most of the 905 is still mooching off of development fees.

2.) As stated, the 905's share of the poverty burden doesn't even come close to Toronto even if combined.

3.) Toronto's property taxes should be lower as the infrastructure is existing and is being paid-into by far denser numbers than most 905 communities.

 

[ShonTron]

Absolutely. If municipalties had to fund the school bords instead of social assistance, then maybe high-growth, high-kids suburbs would be swamped. Instead, Harris dumped housing and social services instead.

I heard this was one reason why Hamilton and Ottawa were amalgamated, to help pool social costs over the metro area. I am not sure about this theory, as they both had regional governments that could have been responsible for these.

 

[lordmandeep]

True Brampton got like 1/4 of thier revenue from development fees.

Really Brampton is around roughly 1/5 the Size of Toronto in population and yet thier budget is like 3/4 of billion.

Toronto spends 8.1 billion.

This shows two things. One really Brampton doesn't pay for much apart from the basics so they can't talk about Toronto's situation. Two the city of Toronto spends to much and should either tax more or spend less.

 

[b13]

well Brampton doens't need to say anything because they understand toronto's situation and support it! It's thos idiotic politicians at mississauga city hall opening their big fat mouths!

 

[ShonTron]

LordWhatever:

This shows two things. One really Brampton doesn't pay for much apart from the basics so they can't talk about Toronto's situation. Two the city of Toronto spends to much and should either tax more or spend less.

You are forgetting one important thing about Brampton - that there's the Region of Peel, which wasn't taken into account in your simple analysis.

The biggest discretionary expense for Toronto is the police. Brampton's budget does not include police (BTW, Peel Police just spent a load of money changing all their police lighting over to red and blue), garbage, water/waste water, welfare, housing, (some of Toronto's biggest expenses) paratransit, public health, regional roads.

Mississauga - same story. You could look at the City of Mississauga's budget and think they're cheapskates. Or Vaughan, Pickering, Oakville.

 

[ShonTron]

well Brampton doens't need to say anything because they understand toronto's situation and support it! It's thos idiotic politicians at mississauga city hall opening their big fat mouths!

But Hazel has not said anything recently about Toronto. It's loose cannons like Parrish and Saito. I'd be interested to see what Brampton councillors think. That said, I think Brampton Mayor Fennell is closer to Miller than Hazel (Brampton endorsed the 1 cent campaign, Mississauga did not).

 

[b13]

You see Brampton and especially mayor Susan Fennel know and understand that the whole GTA is run by toronto. Meaning that Toronto is the heart of the GTA and Brampton, Mississauga etc are the arteries! Brampton knows that if toronto is propering then Brampton will also prosper! Brampton has a huge industrial market because of its proximity to Toronto and because of the economic growth of Toronto. But if Toronto starts to stumble then Brampton will also stumble! This is why Mayor susan Fennel was right behind David Miller on the 1cent campaign!

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

If I recall McCallion has been quite supportive in the fight for more municipal funding by higher levels of government. I guess it's not "whining" if she does it though...

Correct syn. When McCallion fights for more funding from the Province or the Feds that's called Mississauga Leading Today for Tomorrow.

Signed,
The Mississauga Muse
MISSISSAUGA MUSINGS Blog

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

Three points...

1.) Most of the 905 is still mooching off of development fees.

In the case of Mississauga they openly acknowledge that and are peering over the lip of running out of their reserve funds. Last Budget meeting I attended, I figured Mississauga will crank up the ol' rhetoric and CorpSpinDept preparing Mississaugans for what's to come.

Feel sorry for the next mayor.... It's THAT person who'll actually have a Job.

2.) As stated, the 905's share of the poverty burden doesn't even come close to Toronto even if combined.

I suspect that's because when homeless people (including youth) are forced into the street they head into Toronto. Plus if I were an evil-empire-municipality (*gasp* you mean there are such things in Ontario?) , I figure that the best way to lower my crime rate and social burdens would be for me to "encourage" "those kinds" to move out of my area. No?

That'd really be interesting to know. Of the souls being helped by Toronto services and NGO's, how many fled Mississauga et al. because the assistance just isn't what it is in Toronto?

 

[The Mississauga Muse]

"TORONTO FISCAL CRUNCH"

that's one candy bar that 'ill leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Yeah and you can wash it down with a GTA BROADSIDE.