Toronto First Parliament Site | ?m | ?s

Automation Gallery said:
Site of first parliament a development in debate

It's not what you see at the southwest corner of Front and Parliament that matters, but what you can't. Today, it's home to a car wash, a truck rental company and a former car dealership. But 200 years ago, it was the location of Upper Canada's first parliament buildings.

During the War of 1812, the buildings were burnt to the ground by American forces. In retaliation, British troops torched the White House in Washington. After that, a jail was built on site, and then a series of industrial structures.

Aside from the obvious question of how a historic site came to be paved over, now there's concern about the future of the property. After decades of public and private indifference, the location may suddenly be on the verge of redevelopment. The question now is: What's next?

More....http://www.thestar.com/article/956665--hume-site-of-first-parliament-a-development-in-debate
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Well, who's going to step up? The property now has a perceived value of $25mm - add to that the cost of offsetting the owners losses if the site is expropriated (you can bet your bottom dollar the cost will greatly exceed $25mm) all to buy a piece of land for a park?

Guess what? The cavalry aint coming this time - the city can’t afford it (and if they could, they couldn’t afford to do anything with it) and neither the province nor the feds want to get involved – and why would they? – It’s a municipal issue – the city should have bought it years ago, don’t make it a provincial issue now. Besides, the city is asking the Province for millions in transit costs etc. etc., how does this cost fit in to any of this?

The city's best bet is to negotiate with the land owner. Maybe let him build 55 stories in exchange for a piece of his property. Otherwise, I have to agree with AG, the OMB has no reason to turn down this proposal. The city has been approving similar projects in the area for years now, why not this one?
 
I feel that we're at the tail end of the building boom in Toronto. Maybe this thing might never even get off the ground.

Still, once the plans go public, this might become politicized (which it should be) if the media can stir up some debate.
 
Don't belittle the site. Being the site of Upper Canada's first parliament and connected to the American invasion, it's of national significance as an early site of government institution building in Canada. The War of 1812 connection is important too. How many times have we been invaded by a foreign power in our history?

If this was in Quebec, there would be no question about it: all levels of government would quickly step in. It's all about leadership on the ground.
 
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jje1000 said:
I feel that we're at the tail end of the building boom in Toronto. Maybe this thing might never even get off the ground.

Still, once the plans go public, this might become politicized (which it should be) if the media can stir up some debate.
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I wouldn't really say that, condo prices per square foot are definitely higher than they were when the boom started. If developers can still make money off it why assume it'll stop or slow down? I think it's ridiculous there's such indifference. We do a terrible job of recognizing our history, maybe the Cons will dole out some cash here in an effort to buy votes and capitalize on the rob ford-style tea party north movement?

hey, i can dream can't i?
 
Automation Gallery said:
Thats because nobody in Ottawa and 90% of all so called Canadians don't give a hoot of what went on here in Toronto 200 years ago.:(
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I think it has a more to do with priorities. There are a lot of people out there who are struggling and would be very upset if a large sum of money was spent to buy land that will become just another park they will likely never get to enjoy. If the province ever gets its books in order and reduces its debt to something reasonable, people might be more amenable to this sort of project. But really, we have multiple transit projects on hold or delayed due to a lack of financing, there are hospitals waiting for Fed./prov. financing so they can start construction and Rob Ford is discovering that it’s easier to complain about how budgets are spent than it is to find the money to do it.

I still believe that something "special" could happen here if the city negotiates with the land owner. Give him some additional density here or on another property in exchange for some of this site. It's simple, affordable and has no legal entanglements and everyone gets what they want.
 
The problem is endemic to Ontario. In Kingston the 17th century remains of Fort Frontenac sit somewhat uncermoniously by the roadside, but hey at least they did 'something' with them:

fort_frontenac_remains_1.JPG


The best we can hope for realistically at the Parliament site is:

st-jacobs-ontario-heritage-plaque.jpg


.... and as for the arguement that we're broke or that somebody else could do with the money, what a cop out! I mean why care about anything then? It is this attitude that at times can make Ontario as a collective community feel like just about the most passionless, phlegmatic and beige places you could find anywhere. Lets face it these things don't get funding because nobody cares, really. It is an apolitical no-brainer to not give a shite about the Parliament site when ravenous interest groups are out there fighting for their own small interests.
 
Tewder said:
The problem is endemic to Ontario.
.... and as for the arguement that we're broke or that somebody else could do with the money, what a cop out! I mean why care about anything then?
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You make a good point...screw the hopital - if people took better care of themselves, they wouldn't need no damn hospital! Lets get this monument built!
 
Yes, well thanks for being the voice of 'reason' Big Daddy. I forgot for a moment that we here in Ontario are unable to value anything or achieve anything but healthcare. Shame on all those other places around the world that do seem to care to preserve history - or build mass transit for that matter - when they are clearly wasting funds! They should take a leaf out of Ontario's book... it's a pretty short, uninspired book but hey it's enough for us!
 
Also, when you're talking about the provincial and federal governments, budgeting is not some zero-sum game. If, for example, $100 million was to materialize for this project it would not mean that some hospital somewhere has been denied $100 million.

Capital debt is not a big deal, especially with a project like this where there's potential for the site to generate revenues. It would be a worthwhile investment.
 
Absolutely right Graphicmatt. The whole 'but who will build the hospitals?' argument is a strawman. The lack of heritage/historic preservation is due to a lack of advocacy that results in a lack of funding at any level of government... and not to say there aren't some who do advocate tirelessly for these things. Only that it falls on deaf ears among a populace that is characterized in its apathy by the likes of Big Daddy.
 
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