Erin Mills Town Centre Expansion | ?m | ?s | 20VIC Management | MMC Architecture

adma

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It may not be a matter of "downscale", so much as a subtle cultural paradigm shift--whether one likes it or not, malls are truly tied into the "Cold War White Middle" mythos. And it may be no mere coincidence that the decline of the mall coincided with the ethnoburbization of the 'burbs (or the end of the Cold War, for that matter). Even when thriving a la Yorkdale or Square One, they seem like relics (however successfully adapted) of a past moment--and in late-blooming cases like Erin Mills and Woodbine, *instant* relics.

If you want a measure of where erstwhile "White Middle" malldom went (or tried to go) post-1990, go downtown, or (at opposite ends of the scale) Vaughan Mills or the Don Mills Centre.
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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I really don't think that's the problem with Erin Mills. Square One (and Heartland for that matter) serve the exact same market as Erin Mills, yet they are flourishing. Although you could then point out Sheridan Centre, Meadowale Town Centre, South Common Mall/Centre, Dixie, etc.

My point is that it's not that Erin Mills came at the end of the "mall era". Erin Mills problem, if anything, is that it's not big enough and not flashy enough. If it got some major tenant coups like say Abercrombie & Fitch, Hollister, Forever XXI, Zara, Mango, Pottery Barn, or any other upscale store that Square One does not have then it'd be instantly much more popular. The problem is getting those big chains to come to a mall with declining foot traffic.
 

airplane-dude

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It may not be a matter of "downscale", so much as a subtle cultural paradigm shift--whether one likes it or not, malls are truly tied into the "Cold War White Middle" mythos. And it may be no mere coincidence that the decline of the mall coincided with the ethnoburbization of the 'burbs (or the end of the Cold War, for that matter).
Yes, because we all know "colored" people don't buy clothes, right? :rolleyes:

I think Mr Coruscanti hit the nail on the head..

Today, two days after Boxing Day, it took me nearly 15 minutes to find a space at Erin Mills. So the people do show up.. But do they show up the rest of the year? Well, not really. And for that, you need an attraction. And you need the mall to look classy..

Whilst looking for a parking spot today, I noticed many Lexus', BMW's and Benz.. So the mall does need some 'classy' retailers for sure.
 

adma

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Yes, because we all know "colored" people don't buy clothes, right? :rolleyes:
Or maybe, if we adopt "colored" lingo, it's the spirit of "bling" they're looking for.

Maybe that's the etymological key to the white-middle-to-ethnoburban paradigm shift: "bling". And as CC says Erin Mills is "not big enough and not flashy enough". For present day mass-retail needs, it lacks bling. The pre-1990 mall era, guided by the idea of "white middle" through the Valley Girl days, was bling-free. By today's blingified standards, pre-1990 malls are the stolid, staid stuff of anchor department stores, Coles, Music World, Japan Camera et al. They're in *that* dinosaur spirit. And Erin Mills was overbuilt at the moment that particular paradigm was ready to collapse. It was Hair Metal at a moment that hip-hop, country, and grunge overtook the mass marketplace.

I just find it odd that 80s malls of one sort or another are more prone to cocking up than most: compare the ever-thriving 60s Jane Finch Mall with the 80s Yorkgate across the intersection...
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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Or maybe, if we adopt "colored" lingo, it's the spirit of "bling" they're looking for.

Maybe that's the etymological key to the white-middle-to-ethnoburban paradigm shift: "bling". And as CC says Erin Mills is "not big enough and not flashy enough". For present day mass-retail needs, it lacks bling. The pre-1990 mall era, guided by the idea of "white middle" through the Valley Girl days, was bling-free. By today's blingified standards, pre-1990 malls are the stolid, staid stuff of anchor department stores, Coles, Music World, Japan Camera et al. They're in *that* dinosaur spirit. And Erin Mills was overbuilt at the moment that particular paradigm was ready to collapse. It was Hair Metal at a moment that hip-hop, country, and grunge overtook the mass marketplace.

I just find it odd that 80s malls of one sort or another are more prone to cocking up than most: compare the ever-thriving 60s Jane Finch Mall with the 80s Yorkgate across the intersection...
It's hard to think of EMTC as being an 80s mall. Yes it was designed in the late 80s and opened in 1989, but that's like calling my sister an 80s baby when she was born that same year: she doesn't remember the 80s at all.

And yeah a lot of the stores at EMTC are really boring. Most of the tenants upstairs are just filler.
 

adma

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It's still *of* the 80s. In fact, the ultimate emblem of GTA hub-mall gravitas of the pre-bling, pre-ethnoburban era...




...are those two logos. Which, well into the 80s, seemed as eternal and unsinkable as Canada's big 5 banks.

Can't recall whether Erin Mills had them both; but it might as well have...
 

Coruscanti Cognoscente

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From the looks of it Jack & Jones and a place called Vero Moda are coming to Erin Mills Town Centre. Jack & Jones is beside Claire's on the upper level. "Vera Moda" is on the lower level between Gap and Guess (did Gap shrink?). I'm gonna go ahead and assume Vera Moda was a typo because only Vero Moda comes up in a search. The last things to come before CadFair sold the mall to 20 Vic were BCBG Max Azria and Swarovski. I assume they're trying to take the mall a bit more upscale. Apparently the average household income here is $115,000, the sales psf are only $486, and there are 8.5 million annual visitors. Source: http://www.20vic.com/propertyPDFs/1102/erin-mills-feb2011.pdf.

For comparison's sake, Square One's has an average household income of $89,583 with 22 million annual visitors. Yorkdale has an an average household income of $91,000, 19 million annual visitors.
 
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airplane-dude

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From the looks of it Jack & Jones and a place called Vero Moda are coming to Erin Mills Town Centre.
Nice catch there..

I did notice the Jack & Jones the other day (forgot to post about it though!)

The Vero Moda, I did not notice though. A quick look on their site shows many, many global locations. Lot's in India, a few through the Mideast and many in Europe. No American locations though, and only one in Canada (Laval, Quebec).
 

airplane-dude

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LOL I do not doubt the accuracy of the map. It's virtually identical to the one CadFair had.
I suppose Guess is expanding just a touch then.. This is posted on the Erin Mills site:

Guess will be closed for renovation and a Fresh New Look. The store will be closed from March 27 to June 5th. For more information please contact Guest Service at 905-569-1981
 

airplane-dude

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20VIC will have a hard time keeping tenants I think, they should think about tearing some of it down for condos and boxes or something. I really don't think anyone will miss 200,000.
Are you serious? Or joking?

The Erin Mills area of Mississauga has over 100,000 residents. That alone can keep a mall this size afloat. Not to mention the Milton, Oakville and South Mississauga.

Square One is great, and there's no comparision between the two but a city of 700,000 people can surely have two malls and a big-box plaza (Heartland).

Last weekend I spent 20 minutes looking for a parking space at SQ1. I'm not a fan of doing that. EMTC will always be the smaller less crowded mall, but that's sometimes a good thing.
 

airplane-dude

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From the looks of it Jack & Jones and a place called Vero Moda are coming to Erin Mills Town Centre. Jack & Jones is beside Claire's on the upper level.
I can confirm the location, but the map shows an extra space beside Jack Jones, which I think they are also taking as well.

emtc-jones.jpg
 

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airplane-dude

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From the looks of it Jack & Jones and a place called Vero Moda are coming to Erin Mills Town Centre.
Jack & Jones looked almost ready today.. they are arranging the product displays now so I suppose it will open up sometime within the next couple of weeks?

I'm not so sure Vera Moda is coming in that location as the entire space is boarded up with the Guess display on it:

 

airplane-dude

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The 20 Vic Erin Mills pdf hasn't been updated since February. Maybe there was a change in plans? Maybe Guess wanted a more prominent location?
It's quite possible. There are a couple of other locations that Vera Moda could go into.. but not too much empty retail space.. Just the 'Gags and Giggles' location and the Lasenza Girl that could fit well.

Guess we'll find out in June as that is when Guess is slated to reopen.
 

airplane-dude

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From the looks of it Jack & Jones and a place called Vero Moda are coming to Erin Mills Town Centre.
Jack Jones is open as of yesterday. Didn't get a chance to go inside though.. Oddly, they seem to have left a small space between them and Clair's which matches the 20vic drawing. Seems like a VERY narrow space for any retail though?

 

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