Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Hopkins123]

Laird Portal

Instead of at-grade, have the line once it emerges out of the portal elevate overhead the eastbound car lanes of Eglinton to an above-grade station on the south side of the Leslie intersection complete with a bus loop/bays for the 56 Leaside and 51 Leslie buses right underneath the station, and make provisions for a interchange with GO Transit's future Midtown corridor. Everyone's happy!

 

[sixrings]

But they could have gone back to the original plan the day he was out of office ne

 

[BurlOak]

But they could have gone back to the original plan the day he was out of office ne

They did go back to the original plan.

Believe it or not, the original plan had the LRT on street through Leslie. This is because there was no consideration for a DRL along Don Mills. The Ford connected Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown would have worked very nicely with a DRL long. It shows that sad state of transit planning when an idiot like Ford came up with the best idea in the past 10 years. Although likely many others knew that putting this on the street would become a disaster, but were afraid to confront the establishment and say anything.

 

[BurlOak]

Instead of at-grade, have the line once it emerges out of the portal elevate overhead the eastbound car lanes of Eglinton to an above-grade station on the south side of the Leslie intersection complete with a bus loop/bays for the 56 Leaside and 51 Leslie buses right underneath the station, and make provisions for a interchange with GO Transit's future Midtown corridor. Everyone's happy!

It would involve some tight curves and steep grades (and simultaneously), but it could be done. I created this a while ago which shows the potential route.


If this decision were made early enough - say just after the next provincial election - I would say the preferred solution would be to tear out the portal and tunnel (cut-and-uncover method) for a couple of hundred metres (maybe close to Brentcliffe) and shift the tunnel to the south (the "cut" is already done, so it would just be "build and cover"). The portal would be roughly the same distance along Eglinton, but it would emerge about 15m south of its current position.

I haven't been that way for a while, but I am guessing that Eglinton is still funneled north of this construction site, so much of the work would be done under areas that are currently blocked from traffic. Thus, the disruption would be minimal, the construction could be done reasonably quickly, and the ultimate alignment would be preferred (flatter and straighter). Also, this area is not on the critical path, so it will have no impact on the opening of the line - which is likely governed by the Yonge-Eglinton station.

What would this cost? Say 300m of essentially cut-and-cover construction, plus a new portal - probably $100M to $200M. It would likely be quite embarrassing to Metrolinx, but maybe not as much as continuing with the current flawed plan.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The trouble with the NIMBYs in the Eglinton & Leslie area is that they wanted a stop at Leslie, PERIOD. There was no thought given to locating it on the south side of Eglinton, nor any other side or center, just that there would be a STOP, nothing about a location of the said stop. They just wanted the candy bar else they'll throw a temper tantrum.

 

[Leo_Chan]

The trouble with the NIMBYs in the Eglinton & Leslie area is that they wanted a stop at Leslie, PERIOD. There was no thought given to locating it on the south side of Eglinton, nor any other side or center, just that there would be a STOP, nothing about a location of the said stop. They just wanted the candy bar else they'll throw a temper tantrum.

I don't understand why the Leslie LRT station couldn't be kept tunnelled and had the TBMs start at Don Mills go West to Yonge. I know it would raise the price by a few $100M, but IMO it would be better than waiting for a traffic light and going up and back down just for one stop. Also, the Sunnybrook Park Station(Leslie) being Orange on the map while the stations around it being gray is also a standout and dumb. Just cut and cover it immediately.

 

[steveintoronto]

I created this a while ago which shows the potential route.

Excellent depiction.

 

[Steve X]

I don't understand why the Leslie LRT station couldn't be kept tunnelled and had the TBMs start at Don Mills go West to Yonge. I know it would raise the price by a few $100M, but IMO it would be better than waiting for a traffic light and going up and back down just for one stop. Also, the Sunnybrook Park Station(Leslie) being Orange on the map while the stations around it being gray is also a standout and dumb. Just cut and cover it immediately.

How did you figure it will ONLY cost $100M more? You realized that they'll have to tunnel under the Don River with Leslie station being much deeper than all other stations on the line. The station itself would have cost $150M. Metrolinx decided not to include that station if it was built tunnelled through. The idea was proposed if you remember correctly but it caused too many problem (politically), they decided against another EA amendment.

I don't think Metrolinx was up to the task of building a shorter version of the Prince Edward Viaduct with a lower deck for the LRT tracks. This will require the roadway on the new bridge to be raised a story to ensure the LRT tracks have enough clearance for the lower park access road and walking trails to the parking lot south of Eglinton.

Alternatively they can just elevated that station right onto of the Leslie/Eg intersection. It would be the cheapest and most efficient. For such a low ridership station and a savings of 1 minute, I doubt it's worth it.

 

[Leo_Chan]

How did you figure it will ONLY cost $100M more? You realized that they'll have to tunnel under the Don River with Leslie station being much deeper than all other stations on the line. The station itself would have cost $150M. Metrolinx decided not to include that station if it was built tunnelled through. The idea was proposed if you remember correctly but it caused too many problem (politically), they decided against another EA amendment.

I don't think Metrolinx was up to the task of building a shorter version of the Prince Edward Viaduct with a lower deck for the LRT tracks. This will require the roadway on the new bridge to be raised a story to ensure the LRT tracks have enough clearance for the lower park access road and walking trails to the parking lot south of Eglinton.

Alternatively they can just elevated that station right onto of the Leslie/Eg intersection. It would be the cheapest and most efficient. For such a low ridership station and a savings of 1 minute, I doubt it's worth it.

A few $100M. As in $100M - $500M

 

[amnesiajune]

I don't understand why the Leslie LRT station couldn't be kept tunnelled and had the TBMs start at Don Mills go West to Yonge. I know it would raise the price by a few $100M, but IMO it would be better than waiting for a traffic light and going up and back down just for one stop.

Tunneling doesn't make much sense. What I don't get is why they're building in the median of Eglinton when they could've used an elevated guideway like they will at Black Creek Drive.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Why no Richmond Hill line connection.

 

[BurlOak]

How did you figure it will ONLY cost $100M more? You realized that they'll have to tunnel under the Don River with Leslie station being much deeper than all other stations on the line. The station itself would have cost $150M. Metrolinx decided not to include that station if it was built tunnelled through. The idea was proposed if you remember correctly but it caused too many problem (politically), they decided against another EA amendment.

I don't think Metrolinx was up to the task of building a shorter version of the Prince Edward Viaduct with a lower deck for the LRT tracks. This will require the roadway on the new bridge to be raised a story to ensure the LRT tracks have enough clearance for the lower park access road and walking trails to the parking lot south of Eglinton. Alternatively they can just elevated that station right onto of the Leslie/Eg intersection. It would be the cheapest and most efficient. For such a low ridership station and a savings of 1 minute, I doubt it's worth it.

From Steve Munro in 2013

The cost for an underground alignment between Brentcliffe and Don Mills would be approximately the same as the surface alignment to which the project has returned.

This is with no Station.

This next Quote Direct from Metrolinx. (all others from Steve Munro site).

the costs associated with an underground LRT Station at this location (est. $80M) are not justified..

So, it was $80M that prevented this grade-separated portion from reaching Don Mills and being compatible with a DRL long.

Several people at the meeting expressed displeasure at the loss of an LRT station at Leslie. To recover this station, a couple of people suggested building a bridge or viaduct over the valley presumably on the south side of Eglinton. Metrolinx did not like this idea as it would involve a $10 million cost to extract the TBM’s just east of Brentcliffe and to relaunch them presumably under the CP Rail embankment.

It appears that the locals were helping look for cheaper solutions, and likely $10M (or $10's of Millions) is what prevented a reasonable solution from being found.

The problem remains that if the line emerges to the surface east of Brentcliffe, the conditions around the portal are not suitable for a launch site (although it would not surprise me if Metrolinx makes the problems worse than they actually might be in order to support tunneling to Don Mills).

The entire thing was a lie from Metrolinx. They said the portal couldn't be built east of Brentcliffe and that's why the full tunneling is needed. Then, they said they couldn't do a south side, because it would still need a portal east of Brencliffe. After rejecting all suggestions, they reverted back to the solution they said was impossible.
The behavior of Metrolinx was so ridiculous that there must have been some political motivation to their stupidity.

 

[BurlOak]

The trouble with the NIMBYs in the Eglinton & Leslie area is that they wanted a stop at Leslie, PERIOD. There was no thought given to locating it on the south side of Eglinton, nor any other side or center, just that there would be a STOP, nothing about a location of the said stop. They just wanted the candy bar else they'll throw a temper tantrum.

They acted perfectly rationally. They left the location of the Station to Metrolinx, provided several solutions, and let the experts come up with the solution. The problem here is 100% Metrolinx, and whoever influenced them - and not the locals.

 

[Voltz]

They acted perfectly rationally. They left the location of the Station to Metrolinx, provided several solutions, and let the experts come up with the solution. The problem here is 100% Metrolinx, and whoever influenced them - and not the locals.

I think the problem was mainly that a delay caused redoing EA could have put the entire line east of Yonge at risk, since it looked like the Liberals might loose the upcoming election, and if that had happened with out the eastern tunnels being awarded then Bombardier would have an even smaller fleet to deliver.

 

[44 North]

They acted perfectly rationally. They left the location of the Station to Metrolinx, provided several solutions, and let the experts come up with the solution. The problem here is 100% Metrolinx, and whoever influenced them - and not the locals.

Yes this was unfortunate series of events and a prime example of politicization in action. South of Eglinton, with a new bridge structure, and an elevated or open-cut Leslie Station (providing full grade-separation to Don Mills) should've always been on the radar. At the very least we could've at least planned for a future Leslie station to be built a future date, perhaps when the CPR sees commuter service. LRT is one of the most flexible systems in the world, yet we presented the two extremes: deep bore or tram-style. I guess in fifty years we'll try to rectify it at great expense.