andrewpmk
Senior Member
That cost savings comes from cancelling the Scarborough subway, and rebuilding the existing SRT alignment instead.
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That cost savings comes from cancelling the Scarborough subway, and rebuilding the existing SRT alignment instead.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Oh that makes sense. That $500m more is if it is elevated I assume?
It'd be interesting if one of the pro-LRT candidates decided to support that. Like say Soknacki, and then Soknacki can go all NIMBY on Chow about how his plan gets rid of the transfer and her's doesn't.
It'd be interesting if one of the pro-LRT candidates decided to support that. Like say Soknacki, and then Soknacki can go all NIMBY on Chow about how his plan gets rid of the transfer and her's doesn't.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I'd love to see Sok support underground ECLRT + SRT. Then he could claim to be a "subway champion", unlike Chow, and hopefully get more support from the subway lovers who would have otherwise voted for Ford or Tory.
Voltz
Senior Member
He wouldn't, because he thinks to rationally and logically to support something that wasteful and unnecessary just to buy votes with sound bites.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Actually IMO the underground ECLRT + SRT isn't very wasteful. Especially compared to the subway extension option.
Regardless, why cant Sok compromise his rational nature just once to get into office. Then he has 4 years to be as rational as he wants
Regardless, why cant Sok compromise his rational nature just once to get into office. Then he has 4 years to be as rational as he wants
rbt
Senior Member
Well, it's not so cheap when you throw in Yonge line capacity constraints. While I think the DRL absolutely needs to go to Eglinton soon, this option makes it a requirement for phase 1 rather than a future phase 2. Either that, or Eglinton line frequencies may be purposefully kept very painfully low to ensure that passengers at Bloor do not get backed up. London Underground uses this kind of scheduling trick in addition to modifying transfer points on the fly to purposefully slow down customers.
The cheapest and best option for folks heading downtown is probably an SRT to a reconfigured Kennedy with GORex service being the easiest/fastest transfer. Spend the cities capital money on GO operations subsidies to run 5 minute frequencies with a free TTC transfer.
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
DRL to Eglinton as phase 1 sounds good to me.
But obviously, it all comes down to the money....
But obviously, it all comes down to the money....
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Could not agree more. At the end of the day, the whole point was to eliminate the transfer at Kennedy, and this does that.
rbt
Senior Member
DRL to Eglinton as phase 1 sounds good to me.
Yeah, me too.
But this $2B addition isn't helpful to the argument that elevating Eglinton is the discount total-network option.
nfitz
Superstar
rbt
Senior Member
The argument presented by Burloak is that elevating Eglinton and combining the line with the SRT is cheaper than doing the Scarborough Subway extension.
I was just noting that it isn't actually cheaper due to the increased DRL cost.
As you said, it's not an option being presented at this time so it doesn't matter. It's been a recurring theme in this thread for several months, so I was hoping to stop it by presenting previously unconsidered facts.
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Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I'd challenge that "increased DRL cost" is a misdemeanor as building the DRL to Eglinton as phase 2 will happen regardless. Just a matter of when.
ehlow
Senior Member
BurlOak's argument is that the choice is between either:
A. Scarborough LRT & fully grade-separated Eglinton East (essentially the 2010 MOU plan)
B. Scarborough Subway (Danforth ext) & at-grade ROW Eglinton East (the current plan)
Therefore the savings from building Scarborough LRT instead of the Scarborough subway can be subtracted from the cost to fully grade-separate Eglinton East.
Many argue full grade-separation of Eglinton East through Scarborough is unnecessary, but by through-routing it with SRT, the MOU plan projections boosted the ridership up to justify it. This essentially assumes those taking the SRT will take Eglinton to Yonge and go down Yonge, rather than using the Bloor line as they would currently.
My problem with this cost argument is that it's also possible to have the Scarborough LRT & at-grade ROW Eglinton East, just like in the original Transit City plan. So to me, it's not a binary choice between A & B above.
Anyways, this exact same argument comes up every month.
A. Scarborough LRT & fully grade-separated Eglinton East (essentially the 2010 MOU plan)
B. Scarborough Subway (Danforth ext) & at-grade ROW Eglinton East (the current plan)
Therefore the savings from building Scarborough LRT instead of the Scarborough subway can be subtracted from the cost to fully grade-separate Eglinton East.
Many argue full grade-separation of Eglinton East through Scarborough is unnecessary, but by through-routing it with SRT, the MOU plan projections boosted the ridership up to justify it. This essentially assumes those taking the SRT will take Eglinton to Yonge and go down Yonge, rather than using the Bloor line as they would currently.
My problem with this cost argument is that it's also possible to have the Scarborough LRT & at-grade ROW Eglinton East, just like in the original Transit City plan. So to me, it's not a binary choice between A & B above.
Anyways, this exact same argument comes up every month.
salsa
Senior Member
Because some people will continue to fetishize over it long after the point of no return.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I am just trying to propose a solution that:
- Serves the people of Scarborough
- Saves $1B.
- Is a compromise between 2 extremes that will eliminate the constant cancelling of plans.
- Is compatible with, and encourages, other needed transit such as the DRL and electrified GO.
The proposals considered so far only satisfy maybe 2 of these.