Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Steve X]

This line map from the Wikipedia article of the Eglinton West subway with theoretical stops. It was always planned to end at York Centre (Mount Dennis) and anything past that station is a pipe dream or a consideration. It's similar to the Sheppard Subway where we only got 4 stations instead of STC. I agree, a subway to the Airport would be nice though. And they could've even extended it east to yonge or don mills.

Those stops do appear in an ancient TTC plan, "Network 2011" from ~1985. Transit Toronto is probably the only online source of that: https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5112.shtml

I agree that a full subway to the airport would never be built nor a subway east of Yonge. Definitely not east of Don Mills on Eg.

York Centre is actually at Black Creek and doesn't extend under the railway with a bus and pickup/drop off facility at the No Frills plaza. There was a plan to develop the Kodak land into something great. Hence initially people after upset to see it turn into a giant carhouse.

So the crosstown got a few hundred meter west of the Eg West subway with an entrance on Weston instead. Which we can all agree is better. Plus an addition of Oakwood station.

 

[Coolstar]

Those stops do appear in an ancient TTC plan, "Network 2011" from ~1985. Transit Toronto is probably the only online source of that: https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5112.shtml

I agree that a full subway to the airport would never be built nor a subway east of Yonge. Definitely not east of Don Mills on Eg.

York Centre is actually at Black Creek and doesn't extend under the railway with a bus and pickup/drop off facility at the No Frills plaza. There was a plan to develop the Kodak land into something great. Hence initially people after upset to see it turn into a giant carhouse.

So the crosstown got a few hundred meter west of the Eg West subway with an entrance on Weston instead. Which we can all agree is better. Plus an addition of Oakwood station.

So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.

 

[W. K. Lis]

So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.

Well, there is an "express rapid transit" available from Weston and Bloor to Union, currently. When the Crosstown LRT opens in 2021, there will be another "express station" added on at Mt. Dennis to get to Union.

Too bad the discount between TTC, GO, and UPX ends at the end of March, 2020. Thanks to the folks at Queen's Park. See link.

 

[warrens]

GTA became trash at building subways. So Vancouver can plan to complete the 6km Broadway subway in 5 years, why does it take 10 years here?

Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.

 

[micheal_can]

Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.

Are there shovels in the ground yet? Why not look at the University extension. That extension is 8.6km and took almost 10 years. Relief Line will take at least 10 years.

 

[Steve X]

Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.

Besides the Ontario Line, Eg West, Yonge North and Scarbrorugh subway are all going to take 8-10 years for a relatively straight forward extension in the suburbs. Eg West totally anticipates an extension westwards.

So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.

I'm pretty certain Eglinton West subway would had operated with exactly what's on Sheppard (4 car TR's with manual operation). The signal system would be in place till the 2050s. The capacity could be similar with wider trains, similar length but less frequent headways. Of course they'll need higher capacity LRVs than the Flexity's to match that.

 

[CapitalSeven]

This line map from the Wikipedia article of the Eglinton West subway with theoretical stops. It was always planned to end at York Centre (Mount Dennis) and anything past that station is a pipe dream or a consideration. It's similar to the Sheppard Subway where we only got 4 stations instead of STC. I agree, a subway to the Airport would be nice though. And they could've even extended it east to yonge or don mills.

Apologies for the poor image. This is from an open house in 1992. At the time they were considering 2 technologies - full subway or something lighter - and 2 routes to the airport - via 27/Dixon or via Renforth.

 

[warrens]

Are there shovels in the ground yet? Why not look at the University extension. That extension is 8.6km and took almost 10 years. Relief Line will take at least 10 years.

Actually yes, there are several places where preliminary construction and geological work is taking place.

It's all documented on Metrolinx's Ontario Line web site. Here's the current list of work sites, it's updated every few days.

 

[micheal_can]

Actually yes, there are several places where preliminary construction and geological work is taking place.

It's all documented on Metrolinx's Ontario Line web site. Here's the current list of work sites, it's updated every few days.

View attachment 231697

So, no.

Drilling and survey work is not the same as construction. If they are not moving utilities or actually digging the tunnels or the station boxes, construction has not begun in my books.

 

[warrens]

Besides the Ontario Line, Eg West, Yonge North and Scarbrorugh subway are all going to take 8-10 years for a relatively straight forward extension in the suburbs. Eg West totally anticipates an extension westwards.

Including design, planning, procurements, utility relocations, etc., sure, you're looking at 10+ years for a project. That's a normal amount of time in many places around the world.
Example: Paris's newest subway line, a 9km route, took about 10 years to design and build.
Example: Tokyo' Fukutoshin Line, also their newest subway, was over 20 years from conception to completion... also a 9km line.

But just to build? No. In the case of TYSSE, station contracts were awarded in late 2011 - mid 2013, digging the tunnels started in mid-2011, and the whole line was open for service at the end of 2017. That's 6.5 years. Mixed into this was a four month delay due to the death of a worker at one of the sites, and gross management and negligence by the two Spanish construction contractor firms that were brought in to do the build. They had to be kicked out and another company was brought in. Neither firm is likely to get a large public transit project again in Canada because of it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Including design, planning, procurements, utility relocations, etc., sure, you're looking at 10+ years for a project. That's a normal amount of time in many places around the world.
Example: Paris's newest subway line, a 9km route, took about 10 years to design and build.
Example: Tokyo' Fukutoshin Line, also their newest subway, was over 20 years from conception to completion... also a 9km line.

But just to build? No. In the case of TYSSE, station contracts were awarded in late 2011 - mid 2013, digging the tunnels started in mid-2011, and the whole line was open for service at the end of 2017. That's 6.5 years. Mixed into this was a four month delay due to the death of a worker at one of the sites, and gross management and negligence by the two Spanish construction contractor firms that were brought in to do the build. They had to be kicked out and another company was brought in. Neither firm is likely to get a large public transit project again in Canada because of it.

Welcome to UT !

 

[warrens]

So, no.

Drilling and survey work is not the same as construction. If they are not moving utilities or actually digging the tunnels or the station boxes, construction has not begun in my books.

You asked if there were "shovels in the ground", not "are they building subway stations". I gave you the correct, factual answer, which is "yes" -- there are actual, literal shovels in the actual, literal ground, today, on February 18, 2020. Head on over to the site at Cherry just south of the loop right now if you want to go see.

Even in the prior Relief Line project, we wouldn't be anywhere near the tunneling or station building phase. Still lots to do before any of that can happen, no matter what the configuration is.

And frankly, I'd be more concerned with questions around how the line is going to cross the Don River twice, and whether or not it's feasible to safely run the proposed 100m x 3m subway trains overground in the middle of Overlea Drive, than whether or not they're digging holes for subway stations!

 

[Coolstar]

Apologies for the poor image. This is from an open house in 1992. At the time they were considering 2 technologies - full subway or something lighter - and 2routes to the airport - via 27/Dixon or via Renforth.

View attachment 231653

You have a link for that? I would like to take a look at it further.

 

[CapitalSeven]

You have a link for that? I would like to take a look at it further.

No, that was a quick cellphone pic from an open house handout that I remembered sitting in a folder for the last 27 years. I'll try to remember to scan the whole thing, which is kind of interesting. The light grey bits of the line were possibly to be elevated, the rest underground.

I recall very vividly that a nice old Italian man with endearingly broken English completely turned the attendees against elevated by waving his arms and saying "under not over, under not over."

 

[Coolstar]

No, that was a quick cellphone pic from an open house handout that I remembered sitting in a folder for the last 27 years. I'll try to remember to scan the whole thing, which is kind of interesting. The light grey bits of the line were possibly to be elevated, the rest underground.

I recall very vividly that a nice old Italian man with endearingly broken English completely turned the attendees against elevated by waving his arms and saying "under not over, under not over."

Ah that's okay. Oh well at least the Italian guy got his wish granted under Doug Ford.