Toronto Eglinton Line 5 Crosstown West Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Amare said:
I think he means with conventional light metro vehicles, not what we're getting now with all the dead space gapped LRVs.
Click to expand...
What's the bug deal with that? The space won't make or break having sufficient capacity, and I don't think the dead space is as much as it appears to be.
 
ARG1 said:
You need to read what I said a bit more carefully.

I didn't say that it was unconditionally better. Yes if you compare the numbers and the on the ground facts, the crosstown is way better - there is no argument. I said that the streetcar it was better in the sense that it is better suited for the environment it runs in. Every mode has a situation that it suits best: For some corridors a subway makes the most sense, in some corridors a tramway, in some corridors a BRT. Tramways like Eglinton are best in extremely dense environments where people are travelling short local distances. That isn't the case on Eglinton: What was built on Eglinton does not suit the corridor it was built in. Eglinton is very suburban, with most people travelling large distances to reach their destination. Tramways do not work well in such environments - and the choice of mode on Eglinton makes no sense.


Which part of Eglinton? Midtown? Well its underground in Midtown - unlike Calgary which is in a completely dedicated ROW only outside of downtown.
Click to expand...

No I mean the suburban stretches of Eglinton. With population densities rivalling those of downtown Edmonton and Calgary - the very places you say tram LRT makes sense.

Calgary-Edmonton-Toronto-Pop-density.png

data from CensusMapper.ca
 
44 North said:
No I mean the suburban stretches of Eglinton. With population densities rivalling those of downtown Edmonton and Calgary - the very places you say tram LRT makes sense.

View attachment 387580
data from CensusMapper.ca
Click to expand...
That's population densities, however that doesn't take into account things like office and commercial buildings. The map above shows that this:
1648144662242.png

has the same density as this:
1648144715073.png


Even looking at the satellite view you can see a massive difference:
1648144753091.png

1648144777081.png
 
Voltz said:
What's the bug deal with that? The space won't make or break having sufficient capacity, and I don't think the dead space is as much as it appears to be.
Click to expand...
Not now it wont, but let's revisit that thought in 20-30 years. The deadspace is much more significant compared to the dead space we have between subway cars (T1s).
 
ARG1 said:
You need to read what I said a bit more carefully.

I didn't say that it was unconditionally better. Yes if you compare the numbers and the on the ground facts, the crosstown is way better - there is no argument. I said that the streetcar it was better in the sense that it is better suited for the environment it runs in. Every mode has a situation that it suits best: For some corridors a subway makes the most sense, in some corridors a tramway, in some corridors a BRT. Tramways like Eglinton are best in extremely dense environments where people are travelling short local distances. That isn't the case on Eglinton: What was built on Eglinton does not suit the corridor it was built in. Eglinton is very suburban, with most people travelling large distances to reach their destination. Tramways do not work well in such environments - and the choice of mode on Eglinton makes no sense.


Which part of Eglinton? Midtown? Well its underground in Midtown - unlike Calgary which is in a completely dedicated ROW only outside of downtown.
Click to expand...

Then what, in your opinion, is suited for the Eglinton corridor?
 
Amare said:
I think he means with conventional light metro vehicles, not what we're getting now with all the dead space gapped LRVs.
Click to expand...
Old heavy metro vehicles had couplers and usually dissuaded passengers from trying to go between cars. We are spoiled with the open ended cars you can walk through from one end of the train to the other.
 
ARG1 said:
That's population densities, however that doesn't take into account things like office and commercial buildings. The map above shows that this:
View attachment 387581
has the same density as this:
View attachment 387582

Even looking at the satellite view you can see a massive difference:
View attachment 387583
View attachment 387584
Click to expand...
Exactly, thanks for pointing it out in detail.

Calgary downtown is so much nicer than ummm Eglinton East. I don't even know how is this even a comparison. It's like comparing a mice to an ant.

Even in winter, Calgary downtown is quite lovely. They have beautifully decorated old city hall with a skating rink. The pedestrian only 6th Avenue is quite a present walk. The 7th Avenue transit mall is where all the riders would hop on the trains. The ridership in future Eg East is no where near what they have (I mean "had" -causes of COVID) in Calgary. Not to mention classy restaurants along the transit mall, a relatively small Chinatown and a financial core. Also a big mall that spans a few blocks with environment protected bridges connecting them with a nice indoor garden (Devonian Gardens) beside the food court (what a relaxing place). Calgary tower is their mini CN tower.

What does Eglinton East have? NOTHING compared to that. Hopefully you won't get splashed by dirt water while walking in the winter along Eglinton. What Eg East has is Eglinton Square, a few suburb supermarkets, big box stores, car dealers and fast food. They can rip everything down for a Devonian Gardens. I would be greatly be satisfied if they had one here.
 
ARG1 said:
That's population densities, however that doesn't take into account things like office and commercial buildings. The map above shows that this:
View attachment 387581
has the same density as this:
View attachment 387582

Even looking at the satellite view you can see a massive difference:
View attachment 387583
View attachment 387584
Click to expand...
You do realize in 10 years Don Mills and Eglinton intersection will have an additional 30 condos/mixed used buildings there if not more lol?
 
Steve X said:
Exactly, thanks for pointing it out in detail.

Calgary downtown is so much nicer than ummm Eglinton East. I don't even know how is this even a comparison. It's like comparing a mice to an ant.

Even in winter, Calgary downtown is quite lovely. They have beautifully decorated old city hall with a skating rink. The pedestrian only 6th Avenue is quite a present walk. The 7th Avenue transit mall is where all the riders would hop on the trains. The ridership in future Eg East is no where near what they have (I mean "had" -causes of COVID) in Calgary. Not to mention classy restaurants along the transit mall, a relatively small Chinatown and a financial core. Also a big mall that spans a few blocks with environment protected bridges connecting them with a nice indoor garden (Devonian Gardens) beside the food court (what a relaxing place). Calgary tower is their mini CN tower.

What does Eglinton East have? NOTHING compared to that. Hopefully you won't get splashed by dirt water while walking in the winter along Eglinton. What Eg East has is Eglinton Square, a few suburb supermarkets, big box stores, car dealers and fast food. They can rip everything down for a Devonian Gardens. I would be greatly be satisfied if they had one here.
Click to expand...
Here's a rendering of the proposed projects in the Golden Mile:
1648216400554.png

Here is what the area currently looks like:
1648216513506.png


Also, Don Mills and Eglinton area below:
1648216925215.png

Which currently looks like this:
1648217515838.png


So if density is what you're looking for, then it'll be there in the next 10 years. It might not be as vibrant as the Calgary downtown you're describing, but also, you need to compare apples to apples. Downtown Calgary needs to be compared with Downtown Toronto, or in the case, Yonge and Eglinton area. And Yonge and Eglinton area has a lot more density and ridership than Cargary downtown. If we were to compare suburban Calgary with The Golden Mile stretch of Eglinton, then again, with the in-work projects along Eglinton, it'll be miles ahead in a matter of 5-10 years.

And my question still stands, what do you propose is a better system than LRT in this section? It is expected to see a pphpd of 8,000, which is too high for buses to handle, and too low for subways to be feasible. LRT is the ideal mode to deal with this capacity requirement while also future proofing for the medium term.
 
fanoftoronto said:
Here's a rendering of the proposed projects in the Golden Mile:
View attachment 387728
Here is what the area currently looks like:
View attachment 387729

Also, Don Mills and Eglinton area below:
View attachment 387730
Which currently looks like this:
View attachment 387731

So if density is what you're looking for, then it'll be there in the next 10 years. It might not be as vibrant as the Calgary downtown you're describing, but also, you need to compare apples to apples. Downtown Calgary needs to be compared with Downtown Toronto, or in the case, Yonge and Eglinton area. And Yonge and Eglinton area has a lot more density and ridership than Cargary downtown. If we were to compare suburban Calgary with The Golden Mile stretch of Eglinton, then again, with the in-work projects along Eglinton, it'll be miles ahead in a matter of 5-10 years.

And my question still stands, what do you propose is a better system than LRT in this section? It is expected to see a pphpd of 8,000, which is too high for buses to handle, and too low for subways to be feasible. LRT is the ideal mode to deal with this capacity requirement while also future proofing for the medium term.
Click to expand...
I'll bet some auto-addicted motorists will want to designate those parking lots as "heritage sites". :eek:o_O😄
 
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