Mississauga Dixie Outlet Mall Redevelopment | 74.7m | 19s | Slate | Giannone Petricone

.dwg said:
Yes, I understand the context. I am suggesting that it seems like an edgy post a teenager would make as opposed to any meaningful commentary about consultation processes.
But that's Twitter - everyone seeking their gotcha moment. It is not a place for nuanced discussion. I digress.
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Some might argue that your post above (the first one) is kinda like you seeking your gotcha moment, no? I try not to analyze why people feel like they need to share/say certain things . When you take yourself out of the discussion and try to analyze "why" as opposed to responding to what is being said, it defeats the purpose. Also, you refute the straw man, yet make ad hominem attacks on arguments because they are made by teenagers (and happen to be on twitter). Let's talk about substance - not "who" or "how" someone is making an argument.
 
You are welcome to disagree with my views on Twitter and the posts above, I have no issues with that. I am not interested in a lengthy debate about that and admittedly I have pretty firm views on that platform at this point.

If you didn't find the substance in my post or don't think it's valid to point out strawman arguments, that is also fine with me. A big part of analyzing substance in an argument is looking at the method by which it is communicated and the rhetoric therein. I think pointing out the strawman in this case says a lot about the substance/essence of the argument.

Admittedly my post didn't really go into depth defending community consultation or my views on what makes appropriate density because that isn't really the point. That is a very long discussion. I was pointing out my concerns with the rhetoric.
 
.dwg said:
But the strawman demonstrated above that hints at an idea that anyone who opposes a new development via community consultation must be a backward racist is
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No such hint was made...and putting aside the irony of the claim being made here.
 
I really don't blame local residents for being concerned about this kind of density given how vague the proponents are being about what the proposal will look like. Density at this level warrants very careful design (along the lines of the Christie site and Lakeview Village). For comparison, the Christie site is 28 acres and 7500 units, which is 681 units per hectare but it is located between a future electrified GO station and a streetcar line. A development at 350 units/hectare with just a bus stop is concerning. It is 2 km from Long Branch GO. Even if we're to add an infill GO station at Cawthra to serve the densifying area between Port Credit and Long Branch, this site would still be 2 km from the station.

All that's to say, I'm not sure this is the right site for this kind of density. It is going to tend to be quite car oriented. Maybe if Line 2 were extended to Sherway and on toward this site
 
afransen said:
I really don't blame local residents for being concerned about this kind of density given how vague the proponents are being about what the proposal will look like. Density at this level warrants very careful design (along the lines of the Christie site and Lakeview Village). For comparison, the Christie site is 28 acres and 7500 units, which is 681 units per hectare but it is located between a future electrified GO station and a streetcar line. A development at 350 units/hectare with just a bus stop is concerning. It is 2 km from Long Branch GO. Even if we're to add an infill GO station at Cawthra to serve the densifying area between Port Credit and Long Branch, this site would still be 2 km from the station.

All that's to say, I'm not sure this is the right site for this kind of density. It is going to tend to be quite car oriented. Maybe if Line 2 were extended to Sherway and on toward this site
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BRT to (one or both of!) the Dixie or Long Branch GO stations would seem to solve that problem pretty nicely.
 
ADRM said:
BRT to (one or both of!) the Dixie or Long Branch GO stations would seem to solve that problem pretty nicely.
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Dixie is pretty narrow along that stretch south of the site, only one traffic lane in each direction. Maybe if they widened the ROW. Can't see them doing that unless the golf course is partially or fully redeveloped.

If they were to do that, should/could be a branch off the Dundas BRT.

All that said, there are no plans for such a BRT or significant upgrade of transit to serve this site. We can't just insert high density developments without having a plan for how to serve them. Honestly, can't see this being approved at this density.
 
Bike lanes already exist on Dixie, or will be installed with the QEW interchange project, between DIxie GO/Dundas and Long Branch GO/Lake Shore Blvd W which are a 10 min ride away from the site. It's a 30 min walk however to these locations from Dixie outlet mall. So it's actually decently connected to higher order transit for cycling. A 10 minute ride is nothing and I suspect that is how they will try to sell the density here.

Also you cant have a BRT to every backyard with some added density. Local transit has a role to play and will connect rides via the Dixie bus with the Dundas BRT, and GO Stations within a 10 minute ride. It's fine.

I'd sooner be concerned about the fact that we're once again adding plenty of density next to a very busy highway where air quality will be terrible for future residents while the large single family house lots nearby sit untouched. But alas that's a different conversation entirely...

Bring on the density.
 
afransen said:
Dixie is pretty narrow along that stretch south of the site, only one traffic lane in each direction. Maybe if they widened the ROW. Can't see them doing that unless the golf course is partially or fully redeveloped.

If they were to do that, should/could be a branch off the Dundas BRT.

All that said, there are no plans for such a BRT or significant upgrade of transit to serve this site. We can't just insert high density developments without having a plan for how to serve them. Honestly, can't see this being approved at this density.
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For your consideration:

1613875189313.png


Orange represents the regulatory floodplain for Credit Valley Conservation.

Note that that seems to leave most of the Lakeview Golf Course's Dixie frontage open to development.

The course is publicly owned.

The course on the opposite side of Dixie is a private club.

To see the floodplain for that, I must turn to the TRCA's mapping program.

1613875400859.png


For the TRCA, the regulatory floodplain is marked in the more logical colour of blue.

The vast majority of that course is not in the Etobicoke Creek floodplain.

Leaving a vast amount of land open to development, in theory.
 
SOS_Urbanist said:
Bike lanes already exist on Dixie, or will be installed with the QEW interchange project, between DIxie GO/Dundas and Long Branch GO/Lake Shore Blvd W which are a 10 min ride away from the site. It's a 30 min walk however to these locations from Dixie outlet mall. So it's actually decently connected to higher order transit for cycling. A 10 minute ride is nothing and I suspect that is how they will try to sell the density here.

Also you cant have a BRT to every backyard with some added density. Local transit has a role to play and will connect rides via the Dixie bus with the Dundas BRT, and GO Stations within a 10 minute ride. It's fine.

I'd sooner be concerned about the fact that we're once again adding plenty of density next to a very busy highway where air quality will be terrible for future residents while the large single family house lots nearby sit untouched. But alas that's a different conversation entirely...

Bring on the density.
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By the time this is built, electrification will be well underway and air quality will be less of a concern (noise, on the other hand).
 
I'm surprised that Choice Properties (Loblaws' real estate arm) owns the land - they don't even have a store there.
 
Towered said:
Huh?? I've been there many times over the years and can't recall a No Frills. Clearly my brain is malfunctioning...
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The No Frills sits on the land where a 2 story Tower Department store used to be. I first started to golf at Lakeview and been a decade since I golf and someway surprised that the course is still there.

There was a major flood a few years back where Dixie and part of the golf course was under water as well impacting the Lakeshore line.

If you going to talk density, you need to look at the whole area starting with the North Service Rd going south.

To bring Lakeview golf course into play for density, you need to make huge changes to the course or make it a nine hole course.

I agree this mall needs to be redeveloped, but until I see more detail design for the site, is it going to be better or worse for the area. The whole area is single 1-2 story homes with some monster homes replacing smaller ones. Retail is a must for the area and needs to be at the base of towers with all parking underground.
 
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