Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[sixrings]

We've been debating Primove here on Sheppard since Miller was mayor. I think the conclusion was it might make things in the tunnel easier, but the worst problem was actually in the stations, where the train would still sit too high if the raised the track level. They'd have to drop the platforms at all the existing stations, which wouldn't be cheap.

Thanks for that Nfitz. I did not know that was the case... I assume though that dropping the stations would be significantly cheaper than raising the entire tunnel to fit the wires of a reg lrt in. I always assumed that when Sheppard LRT was complete enough frustration about the transfer would cause conversation about a possible conversion to start.

When are we going to see a Oakwood design? I went by the LRT display outside EGlinton West and the TTC booth person couldnt even give me hours of when the Demo LRT would be open to look at

 

[BMO]

We've been debating Primove here on Sheppard since Miller was mayor. I think the conclusion was it might make things in the tunnel easier, but the worst problem was actually in the stations, where the train would still sit too high if the raised the track level. They'd have to drop the platforms at all the existing stations, which wouldn't be cheap.

How hard could it be yo maintain existing columns on the platforms and just shave off a metre or so of platform? I guess they'd have to extend the stairs and escalators/elevators as well though, ultimately taking away space on the platform length. There's only 5 stations though. I'd still rather just extend the subway east and west. I'd much rather see this technology implemented downtown on the legacy system.

 

[Eug]

I'm watching "Strip The City" on Discovery World and about 1/3rd of the way through they start talking about the glaciers that crushed the rock here into the soil that is now underneath Toronto. That leads to a discussion of the tunneling occurring for the Eglinton Crosstown, with animations of the process and video of the machinery in action.

http://www.discoveryworld.ca/showpage.aspx?sid=47067

 

[W. K. Lis]

Two public events in December, from this link at www.thecrosstown.ca:

December 11, 2012

Metrolinx invites you to attend a public information meeting to get a project update, learn more and share your input on a change of the east tunnel portal location from east of Laird Station (Brentcliffe Road) to just east of Don Mills Station. This change will allow uninterrupted tunnelling from Don Mills to Yonge Station with significant improvements to construction staging, schedule and impacts.

The information meeting will be held starting at 7:00 pm with an opportunity to view displays and speak one-on-one with staff, followed by a presentation and question and answer at 8:00pm. We look forward to seeing you there.

Download the event flyer (PDF)

Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2012
Time: 7:00-9:00 p.m.
Location: Ontario Science Centre, Telus Conference Room, 770 Don Mills Road

December 12, 2012

Metrolinx invites you to attend a public information meeting to learn more about:

• a change to the west light rail transit alignment that will enable an underground station at Weston Road and Mount Dennis; and
• the preliminary planning for a new vehicle maintenance and storage facility at Eglinton and Black Creek.

Metrolinx also invites you to provide input through a Mobility Hub Workshop that will help identify community opportunities to shape the future vision for the area.

The information meeting will be held starting at 6:30 pm with an opportunity to view displays and speak one-on-one with staff. The Mobility Hub workshop will follow, beginning at 8:00pm. We look forward to seeing you there.

View the Environmental Assessment and Mobility Hub Flyer (PDF)

Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2012
Time: 6:30-9:30 p.m.
Location: York Memorial Collegiate Institute, 2690 Eglinton Avenue West

 

[CapitalSeven]

That's quite significant. They seem to want a line that is completely grade-separated to Don Mills, which a lot of people have said makes sense. Probably no Leslie station, to pay for the longer tunnel.

 

[nfitz]

That's quite significant. They seem to want a line that is completely grade-separated to Don Mills, which a lot of people have said makes sense. Probably no Leslie station, to pay for the longer tunnel.

It is a major change moving the portal from east of Laird to east of Don Mills Road. It was always planned that they'd tunnel under Don Mills Road ... so that there would have to be 3 portals (east of Laird, west of Don Mills Road, east of Don Mills Road).

Perhaps they concluded the extra cost of tunnelling was less than the cost of 2 portals and a Don River crossing west of Leslie.

So is Leslie station still on the books? That would be an interesting station underground. Laird and Don Mills stations might be deeper that originally planned as well.

 

[datamouse]

I thought part of what led to Ford's transit plan trouble with council was that it was too much of a problem to tunnel under the Don.

 

[andrewpmk]

Good decision. Since so many people using the Eglinton LRT will want to get off at the Don Mills stop (there are many apartment and office buildings near there), this will result in higher capacity west of Don Mills.

Now if we can only get level crossing arms (similar to Calgary) east of Don Mills.

 

[Voltz]

If they are actually going to tunnel it all the way to Don Mills then there must be some kind of difficulty with building the portal where it is currently planned to be.

Otherwise tunneling all the way is unnecessary as the same effect can be achieved by just running the line on the south side of Eglinton on the surface as has been suggested many times.

I can imagine large and long term disruptions with building a TBM launch shaft and tunneling staging area at Don Mills and Eglinton, especially if the staging area is required to support tunneling operations all the way to Yonge Street.

 

[innsertnamehere]

So they are now tunnelling to don mills? That's a good long extension. Should speed up the trip time as well as allowing full grade desperation to a possible DRL interchange.

 

[BurlOak]

Duplicate Post - poor resolution.

 

[BurlOak]

Two public events in December, from this link at www.thecrosstown.ca:

I was just about to post a comparisson for a couple of options for ECLRLT.

1. The current (yesterdays) plan for ECLRT, SELRT, and FWLRT.
2. The B-D extension to Sheppard.
3. The Elevated Eglinton Rapid Transit Plan.

One thing I have concluded is that the current $8.2B must be spent on these corridors, and it is not possible to bump up the DRL and completely ignore these lines. I show the rapid transit lines heavier than the LRT lines, and I show all Rapid Transit stations.

In reading the DRL report, it became apparant that the DRL, as proposed, will not go far enough to relieve the Yonge line. In all DRL proposals, the number of riders will still increase on Yonge and the number of transferring passengers at Yonge-Bloor will increase. The only reason things looked ok in the report was that the capacity was increasing - mostly from improvements to the Yonge-Bloor station - which was not costed but was pegged at $1B in OneCity. I think the DRL needs to go north to take passengers off the Yonge line, and it needs to assit those from Scarborough, so they will indeed transfer to the DRL.

Making ECLRT an elevated Rapid Transit line (continuous with SRT) would provide more opportunity for those from Scarborough to transfer to the DRL. Notably, at a new DM/Eg station and not just at Pape, which may be difficult and costly to upgrade to a major interchange. Also, extending the DRL north to Finch (Seneca College) would take riders off of Yonge. I would build ECLRT all the way from Malvern (not just Sheppard) to Mississauga (Commerce Bldv) as a Rapid Transit Line. This eliminates the need for Sheppard/SRT and Jane/Eg to be temporary terminal stations until the extensions are completed. The only downside I can see is during the closure of the SRT (for upgrading), and also the effect if will have on the views and character of the Golden Mile area. I am not sure if sending the ECLRT to YYZ is best or extending the People Mover, so I will stop at Commerce Blvd. I also propose to extend B-D to the West to hwy. 427 (Honeydale). This would be very useful for BRT routes on Dundas and 427. I would put a bit of money into improved busses for Finch and Sheppard to compensate for not getting a higher order of transit.

The B-D extension to Sheppard seems to have been under-costed in One City. When I look at costs, it appears there is nothing left for Finch. The only advantage of this is during the actual closure of the SRT. Otherwise the above Rapid Transit plan is much superior. Both this plan (B-D extension to Sheppard) and the Elevated Eglinton Rapid Transit Plan above are marginally more expensive ($300M) then the current phase of the transit City-like plan.

It is interesting that Metrolinx has finally realized that stopping the rapid transit ECLRT near Brentcliffe was an error. It is more interesting to note that Ford was completely wrong to tunnel the ECLRT under the Don River due to cost, but that it exactly what is being proposed. Are they switching to Fords plan? Will the next step be to continue the tunnelling past the DVP to prevent a major bottleneck at the ramp terminals and traffic lights around DVP? I always thought that a South side alignment was preferred from Brentcliffe to DM, and then elevated to Kennedy.

This is actually quite big news that Metrolinx and TTC finally realizes that ECLRT must work together with the DRL.

 

[sixrings]

sometimes I think the one large grade separated eglinton route would be the best option. But my hope is once LRT gets to other areas of the city it will gain traction and eventually start convincing people its a real alternative to subways. By making Eglinton Grade separated the entrie way and not doing a sheppard and finch LRT we play into the myth that only subways work. If we want serious transit everywhere in the city that is cost prohibitive and not a option. We will have to wait over 100 years to get that finch subway Ford promised. Wed have to wait at least until the DRL and the yonge line was expanded before even looking at sheppard. Then there are a number of other routes that could have lrt as well which aren't even on the list yet. As a result I think the current plan works the best for future expansion of transit at a reasonable price.

 

[ssiguy2]

All this time I thought DM has an underground station and it went to grade just east of it.

LRT would be a very wise decision in some areas especially Union/Miminco but Eglinton should be completely grade separated. It should be elevated to Kennedy to allow for automation and it would double the capacity as they would be able to run every 90 seconds as opposed to at the most every 3 minutes at grade and even that's pushing it. 50 meter grade separation has the capacity of 100 meter stations where any are at grade.

Interesting how some think Toronto will never accept elevated rail but the AirLink spur is completely elevated, Yes it goes beside a freeway and near commercial area but the Golden Mile is just commercial and light industry as well.

 

[gweed123]

It is a major change moving the portal from east of Laird to east of Don Mills Road. It was always planned that they'd tunnel under Don Mills Road ... so that there would have to be 3 portals (east of Laird, west of Don Mills Road, east of Don Mills Road).

Perhaps they concluded the extra cost of tunnelling was less than the cost of 2 portals and a Don River crossing west of Leslie.

So is Leslie station still on the books? That would be an interesting station underground. Laird and Don Mills stations might be deeper that originally planned as well.

That's a good question. One thing that this opens up the possibility for is a redesign of Don Mills Station (if it's deeper, it will have to be redesigned). Given Metrolinx's recent announcement regarding the DRL, this may provide a good excuse to design a fully integrated intermodal facility, so the DRL can just be 'plugged in' when built, as opposed to having to be shoehorned in into a less than optimal connection.

Maybe have the Eglinton platform as a deep platform, with a future perpendicular DRL platform directly above it? Theoretically the DRL can be cut-and-cover until it has to cross the river (for which it can be a bridge followed by a tunnel under Thorncliffe Park). So having the Eglinton platform be the deep platform and the DRL be the shallow platform may be an advantage for both. With this I'm assuming of course that a trench will be dug in the Science Centre parking lot on the west side of Don Mills. Certainly appears to be easier than going either directly under the road or on the east side of the road.