Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[rbt]

I think tunneling can remove the redundant midblock stops by making them too financially infeasible to build, further helping the overall line. It'll be expensive but at least you know what you're getting with it, while I don't really feel confident in Toronto's ability to implement proper signaling priority for public transit. It's a too hands-off too suburban minded a city... I mean we can't even get paid duty police officers to police the traffic to help shuttles moving when subway is closed in this city and it takes like 10 minutes for a shuttle bus from Bedford to get on on Bloor in all that chaos.

I say don't leave it to chance.

I don't see a feasible near/mid-term tunnel option for this extension. If a tunnel is the only option, it'll remain an unfunded proposal for at least a decade.

Brown is going to struggle to fund RER, even after redirecting all federal transit money at that project, which has far wider conservative voter impact. 70% of PC seats will have priorities that are not transit in the GTA; and another other 25% want RER only (happy to kill Hamilton/Mississauga LRT plans to get it).

Another Wynne majority, and sustained unexpectedly high levels of tax revenue, seem an unlikely combination. Wynne would struggle (with today's finances) to toss another $3B onto Eglinton and no other leader (even another Liberal leader) will be interested.

 

[sixrings]

I don't see a feasible near/mid-term tunnel option for this extension. If a tunnel is the only option, it'll remain an unfunded proposal for at least a decade.

Brown is going to struggle to fund RER, even after redirecting all federal transit money at that project, which has far wider conservative voter impact. 70% of PC seats will have priorities that are not transit in the GTA; and another other 25% want RER only (happy to kill Hamilton/Mississauga LRT plans to get it).

Another Wynne majority, and sustained unexpectedly high levels of tax revenue, seem an unlikely combination. Wynne would struggle (with today's finances) to toss another $3B onto Eglinton and no other leader (even another Liberal leader) will be interested.

 

[Dan416]

I don't think tunneling the whole thing is necessary, but not grade separating the major intersections would be a travesty.

I don't get why we have to do everything on the cheap, or veer in the opposite direction and build super expensive subways like TYSSE and SSE. It's like half-assed LRT and gold-plated subways. Why can't we have cheap subways and gold-plated LRT?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't think tunneling the whole thing is necessary, but not grade separating the major intersections would be a travesty.

I don't get why we have to do everything on the cheap, or veer in the opposite direction and build super expensive subways like TYSSE and SSE. It's like half-assed LRT and gold-plated subways. Why can't we have cheap subways and gold-plated LRT?

Because LRTs don't win votes, regardless of how gold-plated they are. So instead, we get subways for everyone, which really means subways for a select lucky few.

 

[Dan416]

Because LRTs don't win votes, regardless of how gold-plated they are. So instead, we get subways for everyone, which really means subways for a select lucky few.

Any why can't we have cheap subways?

 

[TransitBart]

Because LRTs don't win votes, regardless of how gold-plated they are. So instead, we get subways for everyone, which really means subways for a select lucky few.

You know this is because of dismal political leadership. Every idea needs a champion. We lack champions here. Mayor of Toronto has been a place politicians have gone to bury their careers for a long, long time.

 

[Sandpit]

Any why can't we have cheap subways?

A combination of geology and very high safety standards.

 

[White Pine]

Would it be possible to build it in a trench? Maybe too much construction disruption, but it allows for grade separation and is cheaper than tunelling. Kind of like this, except in the middle of the road?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0378835,-114.1480652,134m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

For example, the TTC streetcar goes into a trench on Spadina and on the Harbourfront route, except imagine that instead it stayed like that instead of eventually going undercover into a loop tunnel.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6652285,-79.4027786,154m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

EDIT: I can see it causing construction headaches, but it wouldn't take up much more physical space than street level LRT.

 

[Amare]

Would it be possible to build it in a trench? Maybe too much construction disruption, but it allows for grade separation and is cheaper than tunelling. Kind of like this, except in the middle of the road?

Had RoFo and DoFo (Rob and Doug Ford) not sold off the Richview Expressway land, this would have been done but unfortunately Rob Ford came into power at the wrong time.

 

[Hopkins123]

Had RoFo and DoFo (Rob and Doug Ford) not sold off the Richview Expressway land, this would have been done but unfortunately Rob Ford came into power at the wrong time.

There's still lots of land available for a trench on the south side of Eglinton. Since when is parkland untouchable for a public good like transit expansion?

 

[White Pine]

see "Byron Linear Park"..... in Ottawa

Edit: just checked google maps, it looks like a good chunk of the land has enough space that could be used without too much trouble, but there would be some trouble spots. I do think that if the middle has space for LRT, it has space for a trench. Maybe it would have to be widened a bit, but that would not be measured in whole lanes, rather just by however much is needed to create a curb/railing to prevent cars from falling in.

The south side looks like it has potential too if the city can somehow protect the land from any more development until construction.

The middle could be used between the cemetery and just about renforth at grade as there aren't any problem intersections there.

 

[MisterF]

Because LRTs don't win votes, regardless of how gold-plated they are.

That's only because GTA residents don't know what LRT can be. If we built LRT with proper priority over cars and grade separations where needed, they'd be just as effective as subways in corridors with medium demand. See Calgary's LRT for example. Or Ottawa's LRT, which is, at least in the first phase, completely grade separated. If Toronto had LRT that operated like those systems do/will, it would absolutely win votes.

Would it be possible to build it in a trench? Maybe too much construction disruption, but it allows for grade separation and is cheaper than tunelling. Kind of like this, except in the middle of the road?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0378835,-114.1480652,134m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

For example, the TTC streetcar goes into a trench on Spadina and on the Harbourfront route, except imagine that instead it stayed like that instead of eventually going undercover into a loop tunnel.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6652285,-79.4027786,154m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

EDIT: I can see it causing construction headaches, but it wouldn't take up much more physical space than street level LRT.

You don't even have to leave Ontario to see a trenched rapid transit system. Ottawa's transitway has significant trenched portions, as does the Mississauga BRT. But for some reason the city of Toronto seems to insist on street-running LRT that stops at red lights, or full tunnels. Nothing in between. It's baffling.

The Calgary LRT section that you linked to is just what much of Transit City could have been. Grade separated and even in tunnels where necessary, complete priority over cars when at grade. This and this could easily be on Eglinton.

 

[Amare]

There's still lots of land available for a trench on the south side of Eglinton. Since when is parkland untouchable for a public good like transit expansion?

Of course there is a lot of land available on the south side, that's if you're interested in the expropriation of homeowners.

 

[MisterF]

Just to drive home the point of what LRT on a street like Eglinton can be, just that one line going west out of downtown Calgary has:

• An elevated section
• At grade sections where the trains never stop for red lights
• Trenched sections
• And even a tunnel

Other, much smaller cities are showing creative ways to keep their trains moving quickly and reliably (well, apart from the downtown Calgary section, but that's another story). With the exception of the central part of Eglinton, LRT can be so much more than what Toronto is building.

 

[Hopkins123]

Of course there is a lot of land available on the south side, that's if you're interested in the expropriation of homeowners.

There's a big honking right of way from East Mall all the way to Islington. Again between Royal York and Scarlett there's land. Only those seeking to find problems refuse to see the obvious solutions.