Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[gweed123]

Exactly. It makes no sense. The area is mostly low density industrial, highway-like, and it's ugly as all hell. The Vaughan portion particularly. The section between Sheppard to north of Finch, and from Steeles to Hwy 7 should've been run in the open air (elev, trenched, etc). I'm quite confident no other city would ever consider building the costliest of all transit infrastructure in such an environment...Toronto really stands out in that regard.

Montreal is the only example that I can think of (Laval extension), but they did that because they have to be underground because of the technology they chose. It's also a single tunnel bore instead of twin like Spadina.

 

[BMO]

Exactly. It makes no sense. The area is mostly low density industrial, highway-like, and it's ugly as all hell. The Vaughan portion particularly. The section between Sheppard to north of Finch, and from Steeles to Hwy 7 should've been run in the open air (elev, trenched, etc). I'm quite confident no other city would ever consider building the costliest of all transit infrastructure in such an environment...Toronto really stands out in that regard.

You do realize that what you're proposing would actually require more track than tunneling would? Not to mention widening Keel because you can't just have the subway fly over top of all the factories without having to do a BUNCH of work and purchase a bunch of land in that industrial park. If we were talking about the section north of Steeles West you may have a point but the section between Downsview and Finch West is more hassle having it above ground.

 

[robmausser]

You do realize that what you're proposing would actually require more track than tunneling would? Not to mention widening Keel because you can't just have the subway fly over top of all the factories without having to do a BUNCH of work and purchase a bunch of land in that industrial park. If we were talking about the section north of Steeles West you may have a point but the section between Downsview and Finch West is more hassle having it above ground.

All of which would be pennies compared to tunneling.

Tunneling is without a doubt an extremely expensive practice and should only be done when absolutely necessary. It is 4-6 times more expensive than above ground.

 

[44 North]

Montreal is the only example that I can think of (Laval extension), but they did that because they have to be underground because of the technology they chose. It's also a single tunnel bore instead of twin like Spadina.

Good point. Though I personally wouldn't put the Orange Line extension in the same category. Between the Island and Montmorency, it's basically sleepy residential with little in the way of major public ROWs or highways that an open-air alignment could use. The TYSSE in North York and Vaughan however is hundreds of acres of warehouses, petroleum storage, highways, and scrubland.

You do realize that what you're proposing would actually require more track than tunneling would? Not to mention widening Keel because you can't just have the subway fly over top of all the factories without having to do a BUNCH of work and purchase a bunch of land in that industrial park. If we were talking about the section north of Steeles West you may have a point but the section between Downsview and Finch West is more hassle having it above ground.

Correct, and it is a bit brash of me to make a proclamation that 'it makes no sense'. But I don't think any open-air option was looked at, and that the project was all-underground right from the start. It's mostly speculation, but I personally think an alignment using some cut/cover, some trenched, some elevated, etc could've worked. I'm sure there'd be mild expropriation involved, but nothing too extreme. And plus, roads in that area have ample unused right-of-ways. North of Steeles I believe open-air would've been a no-brainer.

 

[smallspy]

It also doesn't excuse the abysmal transfer between the GO train and LRT that I pointed out, which so far no one has addressed.

So what did you propose that they do instead? Dig a pair big pits ahead of time on either side of the rail line to run the TBMs into and start them up again?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[howl]

The rule basically is that if anyone and their dog can park for free, then there's no value. But if not, you have to pay, unless your employer has only a few spots, and it's first-come first-served, rather than reserved parking.

I think the situation at the LRT stations (and TTC subway stations) is that there needs a couple of spaces for maintenance vehicles regardless, so if there is no maintenance scheduled for that day there is no reason why the booth operator or another employee can't use the spaces. In an emergency maintenance situation the non-maintenance employee might have to move their vehicle.

 

[crs1026]

So what did you propose that they do instead? Dig a pair big pits ahead of time on either side of the rail line to run the TBMs into and start them up again?

If I am reading the drawing correctly, GO will have a center platform between the two westernmost tracks and a platform on the east side of the easternmost track (which is a 3-track GO station, interestingly). There could be stairways/escalator/elevator downwards from the GO platform, and a tunnel under the GO tracks towards the LRT. That creates an additional entrance to the GO station (accessible only from the LRT). I can't see a reason why that wouldn't be doable in theory, but it's added cost and structural complexity. And necessitates a three-stop elevator between street level, go platform, and tunnel levels.

Having everyone exit the GO station by going upwards is the simplest flow - but it's definitely an elevator/stairs ride up, and then a second elevator/escalator ride back down - a bit of a jaunt. But still fairly minimal compared to the long walks between lines in interchange stations in London or Paris, for example.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the 2012 presentation, Caledonia Station would have a stairway at its west end, no elevator nor escalator. Just at its east end.

Yet, the elderly would be heading to buildings that are closer to the west end of the station. Wonder how many hours it would take them to climb those west end stairs?

 

[Armour]

Can someone please post a link to those Richard Rogers designs that were mentioned above?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't think anyone mentioned designs by Richard Rogers...

AoD

 

[M II A II R II K]

It looks like the platforms are smaller than subway platforms.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It looks like the platforms are smaller than subway platforms.

Shorter for sure, but certainly doesn't feel that much narrower than the recent TTC island platforms.

AoD

 

[Johnny Au]

The right hand turn onto the side street is greater than 90 degrees. So it will require either a right turn lane or an island (otherwise turning traffic will have to slow down so much it will create a dangerous situation. It also makes an effective "kiss and ride" drop off location.

Especially for fried chicken.

 

[Johnny Au]

Some of the deeper stations like Covent Garden are only accessed by industrial sized elevators with a spiral staircase for emergencies only.

Yup, additional examples of full or partial elevator access:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_Glen_station
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKU_Station

Depth we're dealing with isn't that big a deal. Amusing that they actually put in decorative tiling for an emergency staircase.

AoD

From the 2012 presentation, Caledonia Station would have a stairway at its west end, no elevator nor escalator. Just at its east end.

View attachment 56481

Yet, the elderly would be heading to buildings that are closer to the west end of the station. Wonder how many hours it would take them to climb those west end stairs?

Stair-climbing should be made an Olympic sport.

 

[Amare]

It looks like the platforms are smaller than subway platforms.

I was thinking the same thing, mainly on the underground section. I really hope these platforms arent as narrow as Eglinton/Yorkdale are.