Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[TheTigerMaster]

It probably will eventually on that route, once the first TC LRTs are retired.

You're far too optimistic.

Eglinton will become an HRT (or another from of higher capacity transit) sometime in the future. That is undeniable. But I don't see that transition happening for at the very least 50 years. Most of us (even the younger members) will probably be long gone before there's even a serious discussion about conversion.

 

[ehlow]

It probably will eventually on that route, once the first TC LRTs are retired.

Eglinton will have capacity to spare for a very long time, as well as the ability to use 3-car trains instead of two car trains, but let's talk very long term for now.

Let's assume Toronto continues to grow, and we're talking >30 years later which from what I understand is the lifespan of the LRVs being ordered now.

My personal hope is that more rapid transit lines will be built by then, and the demand will be spread out like in NYC, rather than funnelled into a few lines like we have today. In NYC, the many lines serve the the same areas but slightly different North-South on Manhattan since it was developed by several competing private companies. However even now they're building a parallel line (2nd ave) to increase capacity.

I'd rather see a bigger more spread out system than upgrading Eglinton to HRT, if or when the need occurs, but also for the system in general. That way, they can close down certain lines for repairs more easily, and when a given line has problems, it would be easier to re-direct the trips along alternative routes. It's the same overall idea s the DRL, when one line reaches capacity, build another parallel line but further away to both increase capacity & coverage.

 

[ehlow]

You're far too optimistic.

Eglinton will become an HRT (or another from of higher capacity transit) sometime in the future. That is undeniable. But I don't see that transition happening for at the very least 50 years. Most of us (even the younger members) will probably be long gone before there's even a serious discussion about conversion.

Agreed, but it's so difficult to know what will happen >50-100 years in the future. The Yonge streetcar started operating in 1861. There's no way they would be planning for or predicting how the world would be like in 1954 when the subway replaced it 93 years later. There weren't even cars on the road back then.

There are so many factors we don't know about anything > 50 years in the future and I don't think it can be predicted or planned for with accuracy.

 

[WislaHD]

Are there really no other attempts at fully (or mostly) underground LRT routes?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It makes me sad Malvern won't get anything now.

 

[ehlow]

Are there really no other attempts at fully (or mostly) underground LRT routes?

Yes, for example what people consider the very first subway in NA was a streetcar running underground in a tunnel, the green line in Boston. Note that it still runs Light Rail Vehicles and instead they expanded capacity by building additional lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremont_Street_Subway

 

[ehlow]

Yes, for example what people consider the very first subway in NA was a streetcar running underground in a tunnel, the green line in Boston. Note that it still runs Light Rail Vehicles and instead they expanded capacity by building additional lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremont_Street_Subway

Whoops sorry, I missed that you said "fully or mostly" underground. However that line does run underground downtown and above ground in the suburbs, just like the Eglinton Crosstown will.

 

[ehlow]

Are there really no other attempts at fully (or mostly) underground LRT routes?

Anyways, in terms of "mostly or fully", Eglinton is about 55% underground, that's assuming no further extensions on Eglinton, ever. It could easily be extended both East and West. If it were a subway, it would be much more difficult to justify extending, like Sheppard now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Sheppard Subway really screwed up the potential for a crosstown rapid transit line in northern Toronto. If the subway didn't exist we'd probably be building some kind of crosstown rt line on Finch or Sheppard.

Thankfully we don't have have any HRTs on Eglinton. If we had gone through with the Eglinton West HRT from the Mike Harris days, the line would have been woefully underused (though not nearly as bad as Sheppard) and it would be very difficult to justify any extensions east or west. I suppose that's one unintended benefit of the cancellation of the Eglinton West HRT in the 90s.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sheppard Subway really screwed up the potential for a crosstown rapid transit line in northern Toronto. If the subway didn't exist we'd probably be building some kind of crosstown rt line on Finch or Sheppard.

Thankfully we don't have have any HRTs on Eglinton. If we had gone through with the Eglinton West HRT from the Mike Harris days, the line would have been woefully underused (though not nearly as bad as Sheppard) and it would be very difficult to justify any extensions east or west. I suppose that's one unintended benefit of the cancellation of the Eglinton West HRT in the 90s.

I don't agree. If Eglinton was HRT it would be very busy. Just the travellers alone would ensure the western portion. Central can talk for itself. Maybe Eglinton from Victoria Park to Kingston you would have and arguement for, although I bet all those subway whiners in the outer 416 would have been quited by an Eglinton subway and they would use it. I really feel either way we had to move the Bloor Yonge traffic from to Don Mills Eglinton and Pape (with the DRL at both points) at some point, just not real real late like now.


And Tiger I bet if Hudak gets in, the Tories will demand the airport part be build underground. And we will never see the Malvern LRT.

 

[ehlow]

Sheppard Subway really screwed up the potential for a crosstown rapid transit line in northern Toronto. If the subway didn't exist we'd probably be building some kind of crosstown rt line on Finch or Sheppard.

Thankfully we don't have have any HRTs on Eglinton. If we had gone through with the Eglinton West HRT from the Mike Harris days, the line would have been woefully underused (though not nearly as bad as Sheppard) and it would be very difficult to justify any extensions east or west. I suppose that's one unintended benefit of the cancellation of the Eglinton West HRT in the 90s.

Agreed. It's been 11 years since Sheppard opened and there are still "forced transfers" on either end.

Just to elaborate on LRT's running in tunnels around the world, it seems many have multiple LRT routes running in shared tunnels through downtown, like San Fran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muni_Metro
I guess it acts like branching, where the ends are at grade on street, and the overlapping lines result in higher frequencies in the tunnels. I haven't been on that system.
I wonder it the Eglinton tunnel could be shared, say with a Lawrence LRT?

I rode an underground LRT/Tram in Brussels, that actually used the same vehicles that the Eglinton line will run (except not in trains of 2-3 cars)! I also so lots of LRVs & buses running in their own lanes on the street at very high frequencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Brussels
As far as I know, several of the lines have long sections underground. It seemed to run very well from my experience, very spacious and subway-like.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If the original Eglinton HRT went to the airport, it could have been a branch of Spadina providing a direct TTC link from the Airport to downtown. And then split it off later when it would have gotten extended eastward on Eglinton.

 

[Rainforest]

Sheppard Subway really screwed up the potential for a crosstown rapid transit line in northern Toronto. If the subway didn't exist we'd probably be building some kind of crosstown rt line on Finch or Sheppard.

Finch crosstown LRT (west + east) is still possible.

Although, I am starting to think whether a mini-metro / ALRT could be a suitable solution for the Sheppard - Finch corridor.

 

[Rainforest]

I wonder it the Eglinton tunnel could be shared, say with a Lawrence LRT?

Possibly.

Although, getting from Lawrence to Eglinton may be a bit of an issue. In the west, the branching point will have to be west of the portal, as connecting a new tunnel to the existing one will be a challenge. That means a chunk of Lawrence between Keele and Yonge needing a separate bus route.

In the east, it would be natural to get from Lawrence to Eglinton via Leslie or Don Mills. But, double frequency between Leslie and Laird may not be sustainable if the line is in median.

Perhaps those issues can be solved somehow.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Finch crosstown LRT (west + east) is still possible.

Although, I am starting to think whether a mini-metro / ALRT could be a suitable solution for the Sheppard - Finch corridor.

We could change whole thing right? I like that. Have it run on finch west, or this. Or this is what I did:

I got rid of sheppard, but the idea is there.