Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[smallspy]

Not saying I doubt you or that you're wrong but wouldn't any streetcar operators have a leg up on the competition considering their prior experience with operating LRV's on the road as well as operating Flexity LRV's (not saying the Outlooks and Freedoms are the exact same but they are from the same family). Obviously they still need to go through the same training course as everyone else but I would assume they would at the very least have an easier time getting the hang of things on the EC and FW than someone who is coming over from the bus or even subway divisions.

It doesn't. If anything, those ops transferring from the subway have a leg up, although they are also having to deal with a nomenclature issue.

The signal system is a big part of the new lines, and there is no such existing system on the streetcar network - but it (especially the one on Eglinton) looks and operates similarly to that on the YUS. A substantial part of the training course covers the operation of it, as well as the various failure modes that can occur.

Dan

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Not saying I doubt you or that you're wrong but wouldn't any streetcar operators have a leg up on the competition considering their prior experience with operating LRV's on the road as well as operating Flexity LRV's (not saying the Outlooks and Freedoms are the exact same but they are from the same family). Obviously they still need to go through the same training course as everyone else but I would assume they would at the very least have an easier time getting the hang of things on the EC and FW than someone who is coming over from the bus or even subway divisions.

really the only similarity between the Flexity Freedoms and Outlooks is the combined brake/throttle, the location of some controls in the cab, and maybe one interface screen. And since from what I have hear both lines are being operated from the same division they also have to learn the Alstom Citadis which has a completely different control interface than the Flexitys.

 

[Towered]

Not sure if it's relevant, but I saw a train parked on the platform at Mount Dennis station a few days ago.

 

[nfitz]

Not sure if it's relevant, but I saw a train parked in the platform at Mount Dennis station a few days ago.

Wouldn't it normally do that to change directions? I don't think it can pull through and change directions on tail tracks - which I don't think exist there yet.

 

[smallspy]

Not sure if it's relevant, but I saw a train parked on the platform at Mount Dennis station a few days ago.

Considering the numbers of cars that have been used on the line over the past weeks and months, and the amount of operators in training right now, it would be more reportable if you hadn't seen a car on the platform there.

Dan

 

[rdaner]

I wonder if ML ever considered opening the GO and UPX part of Mount Dennis Station just to do something positive? It will be interesting to see if there are going to be many GO riders getting off at either Mt. Dennis or Kennedy to transfer to Eglinton. Also the UPX is being used by many (myself included!) as a subway line. The addition of another stop will likely increase this trend.

 

[anb]

I wonder if ML ever considered opening the GO and UPX part of Mount Dennis Station just to do something positive? It will be interesting to see if there are going to be many GO riders getting off at either Mt. Dennis or Kennedy to transfer to Eglinton. Also the UPX is being used by many (myself included!) as a subway line. The addition of another stop will likely increase this trend.

That probably depends on where on Eglinton they are going. If you’re heading from the Airport or anywhere on the Kitchener Line then it makes better sense to transfer at Mount Dennis, and same goes for if you are on the Stouffville and LSE lines to transfer at Kennedy.

But it could also depend on if your destination on Eglinton are closer to the respective GO station.

 

[Bojaxs]

Hypothetical question.

If we were to grade separate the eastern portion of the Eglinton Crosstown (elevation, tunnel, etc.), could we bring it to the same parameters, specifications as the Ontario line? Essentially have Eglinton running the same Hitachi trains as the Ontario line. Would it be difficult to do this sometime in the future?

 

[Richard White]

Hypothetical question.

If we were to grade separate the eastern portion of the Eglinton Crosstown (elevation, tunnel, etc.), could we bring it to the same parameters, specifications as the Ontario line? Essentially have Eglinton running the same Hitachi trains as the Ontario line. Would it be difficult to do this sometime in the future?

Nothing is impossible when you have unlimited funds.

That said nobody will ever support an elevated rail system. Not now, not in the future.

As for tunneling.. that ship has sailed.

 

[ARG1]

That said nobody will ever support an elevated rail system. Not now, not in the future.

That's a very definitive statement considering how much of the Ontario Line will be elevated, and how keen Metrolinx seems to be on elevating the Sheppard Line.

Like if Vancouver can elevate the majority of its Metro system, there is no reason Toronto can't.

 

[duffo]

Hypothetical question.

If we were to grade separate the eastern portion of the Eglinton Crosstown (elevation, tunnel, etc.), could we bring it to the same parameters, specifications as the Ontario line? Essentially have Eglinton running the same Hitachi trains as the Ontario line. Would it be difficult to do this sometime in the future?

The Ontario Line trains are smaller than Eglinton Line because the OL is automated. I'd imagine it would take a pretty comprehensive re-signalling effort across the whole line, and maybe targeted track upgrades, to automate the line to run the frequencies required to have those smaller trains and provide the same/additional capacity. There may also be fire safety/ventilation upgrades required to handle the extra trains.

The Eglinton Line is already automated in the yard and tunneled section, but not sure if the system was designed to handle the 90s frequencies that we may see on the OL.

Otherwise, both trains use standard gauge. Lots of transit lines around the world use mixed fleet.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Hypothetical question.

If we were to grade separate the eastern portion of the Eglinton Crosstown (elevation, tunnel, etc.), could we bring it to the same parameters, specifications as the Ontario line? Essentially have Eglinton running the same Hitachi trains as the Ontario line. Would it be difficult to do this sometime in the future?

If you have ten billion dollars to spare, anything's possible.

Other people have speculated, and I agree, that it's more likely they cut the line at Doug Ford's Corruption Emporium Science Centre and instead run Ottawa/Seattle-style operations to the west, and the east gets the Finch treatment.

That's out of the range of most of our lifetimes, and if Eglinton East gets built without the connection, this plan will be dead forever.

That's a very definitive statement considering how much of the Ontario Line will be elevated, and how keen Metrolinx seems to be on elevating the Sheppard Line.

Like if Vancouver can elevate the majority of its Metro system, there is no reason Toronto can't.

The Ontario Line trains are smaller than Eglinton Line because the OL is automated. I'd imagine it would take a pretty comprehensive re-signalling effort across the whole line, and maybe targeted track upgrades, to automate the line to run the frequencies required to have those smaller trains and provide the same/additional capacity. There may also be fire safety/ventilation upgrades required to handle the extra trains.

The Eglinton Line is already automated in the yard and tunneled section, but not sure if the system was designed to handle the 90s frequencies that we may see on the OL.

Otherwise, both trains use standard gauge. Lots of transit lines around the world use mixed fleet.

The bigger concern than gauge here is platform height. To use the OL's trains would require a conversion of the Eglinton Line platforms to high floor, something which would optimistically require a multi-month shutdown (probably multi-year). Otherwise, with LRVs, just turn around every other train or every third train at Don Mills when capacity hits the roof.

Honestly, it's the same deal as Sheppard; I don't think a conversion or elevated guideway will happen, if for no other reason than the inconvenience to existing riders while everything changes over. (elevated even more so, that's a multi-year shutdown anywhere)

 

[smallspy]

The Ontario Line trains are smaller than Eglinton Line because the OL is automated.

They're not.

They're about halfway between a subway car and an SRT car - about 9 1/2 feet wide by 65-ish feet long per car, coupled into 4-car trains (260 feet long) with the potential of adding a 5th car.

The LRT cars are narrower - 8 feet, 9 inches - and at the start will be less than 200 feet long but will ultimately be almost 300 feet long.

Automation has no bearing on the size of the equipment.

Dan

 

[Jonny5]

Hypothetical question.

If we were to grade separate the eastern portion of the Eglinton Crosstown (elevation, tunnel, etc.), could we bring it to the same parameters, specifications as the Ontario line? Essentially have Eglinton running the same Hitachi trains as the Ontario line. Would it be difficult to do this sometime in the future?

The expense of doing all that would in any circumstance I can think up be better used for another new line, or by making a new branch off of the Crosstown.

 

[nfitz]

The expense of doing all that would in any circumstance I can think up be better used for another new line, or by making a new branch off of the Crosstown.

Agreed.

In addition to the grade separations themselves, the biggest issue would be raising the platforms (elevators, escalators) in all the stations.