Toronto Corktown Common | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto | Maryann Thompson

hawc said:
Don't forget the homeless moving in and taking over like all downtown parks.
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Yeah, just like they did at Sherbourne Common, Sugar Beach and Canoe Landing Park. All these parks are crawling with homeless people walking their little pugs, poodles and terriers that poop all over everything. Disgusting! Damn those homeless people.
 
Torontovibe said:
Yeah, just like they did at Sherbourne Common, Sugar Beach and Canoe Landing Park. All these parks are crawling with homeless people walking their little pugs, poodles and terriers that poop all over everything. Disgusting! Damn those homeless people.
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You forgot the ones that are in the older parks as well, often late into the evening. Don't they have homes to go to?
 
I don't think it can be said that MOST parks in Toronto are well maintained but in fact the opposite. Sherbourne Commons is already beginning to look a bit ratty. The grassed areas are completely brown and ridden with weeds, the weeds have been allowed to grow beyond the grass areas into areas covered with peastones. The peastone gravel is scattered everywhere because no edging was incorp. Into the design. The water feature is strewn with garbage......etc

Interesting on a side note, I notice Toronto parks and rec. workers working on the grounds on the Metropolatain Cathedral grounds today. So I asked one of them why they were working on tax exempt church grounds. I was told they have a special agreement with the city. WTF does this mean? Shouldn't the parishioners of this god awful faux gothic monstrosity take care of their own decrepit property and free up the p&r workers to take care of "really city parks" paid for with citizens tax dollars?
 
Register123 said:
I don't think it can be said that MOST parks in Toronto are well maintained but in fact the opposite. Sherbourne Commons is already beginning to look a bit ratty. The grassed areas are completely brown and ridden with weeds, the weeds have been allowed to grow beyond the grass areas into areas covered with peastones. The peastone gravel is scattered everywhere because no edging was incorp. Into the design. The water feature is strewn with garbage......etc

Interesting on a side note, I notice Toronto parks and rec. workers working on the grounds on the Metropolatain Cathedral grounds today. So I asked one of them why they were working on tax exempt church grounds. I was told they have a special agreement with the city. WTF does this mean? Shouldn't the parishioners of this god awful faux gothic monstrosity take care of their own decrepit property and free up the p&r workers to take care of "really city parks" paid for with citizens tax dollars?
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The tile floor of the canal in Sherbourne Common is already covered with a brown/green film of algae. The rocks in the fountains are also covered with thick algae. So why put in a colourful tile pattern, if they are not going to keep it clean? Couldn't they have done one thorough cleaning before the summer? I just find it pointless to have nice tiling, then let it get covered in ugly algae.
 
If you want nicely maintained parks, you should be prepared to pay for them. As much as certain folk like to harp about inefficiencies and lazy staff, people more or less get what they pay for.


A similar problem regarding playing fields:

The challenges are legion: Toronto’s fields are old, overused and under-maintained by a parks department that doesn’t have the money or dedicated staff of turf specialists it needs to properly care for any but a handful of premier pitches and diamonds.
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ields-are-in-such-rough-shape/article4226043/
 
For the record, Canoe Landing is currently undergoing some renovation. The gardens are being redone and a strategy to maintain them is being developed. A dog park will also be built on the grassy field area where the grass is looking worn and spotty.
 
Register123 said:
I don't think it can be said that MOST parks in Toronto are well maintained but in fact the opposite. Sherbourne Commons is already beginning to look a bit ratty. The grassed areas are completely brown and ridden with weeds, the weeds have been allowed to grow beyond the grass areas into areas covered with peastones. The peastone gravel is scattered everywhere because no edging was incorp. Into the design. The water feature is strewn with garbage......etc
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In a point of fairness, grass is brown everywhere. Record breaking high temperatures, and one of the driest Julys on record are no doubt a major contributor.

Also, everyone likes to blame the city for garbage, but perhaps we should go after the root cause: lazy, boorish citizens. We need better enforcement, or, we could tackle two birds with one stone and put those aforementioned homeless people to work. They can earn the right to sleep in the parks by cleaning up garbage 9-5.
 
egotrippin said:
In a point of fairness, grass is brown everywhere. Record breaking high temperatures, and one of the driest Julys on record are no doubt a major contributor.

Also, everyone likes to blame the city for garbage, but perhaps we should go after the root cause: lazy, boorish citizens. We need better enforcement, or, we could tackle two birds with one stone and put those aforementioned homeless people to work. They can earn the right to sleep in the parks by cleaning up garbage 9-5.
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Might handing over control of important parks to Neighbourhood BIAs do the trick? The city would continue to do basic mantenance, but the BIA would be allowed to determine and run the overall use of the park. This should give people living in the neighbourhood control over their parks (bar private use), which might aid in better care of certain features and more interesting programming.

Something like what's going on at Dufferin Grove Park, but more formalized.
 
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^^Let me express my skepticism that homeless people chain gangs are the key to improving the state of our parks. Park maintenance is a real job, people should be paid fair wages to do it.
 
Grimace said:
^^Let me express my skepticism that homeless people chain gangs are the key to improving the state of our parks. Park maintenance is a real job, people should be paid fair wages to do it.
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I was speaking strictly of the garbage cleaning. Cleaning garbage is not a skilled job. It'd free up time for parks and rec workers to do real maintenance work; rather than spend half of it cleaning up after assholes. I'll even let my humanitarian side shine through and insist that we don't need to physically chain them either.

My attention was drawn to the BIA aspect, specifically bar use. It's still taboo in old puritan Toronto, but it's about time I'm able to enjoy a beer with my lunch in a public park. Having a beer or two does not equal getting drunk and causing a scene, which is often what the argument against circles back to.
 
A part of the problem involves individuals cleaning up after themselves. It starts with a sense of pride in the stewardship of this city. Maybe we need more fines for littering. It's been said before in these threads, that it's the individual who really makes a difference. Next time you see a Timmies blowin' in the wind, just pick it up and dispose of it. Who knows, maybe it'll catch on.
 
DHLawrence85 said:
The "anonymous" part. You can say whatever pops into your head without fear of retribution. Only 4chan users can be bothered to put the time into tracking down and pillorying a troll.
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Who was slinging mud? There are clearly deficiencies with the way our parks are maintained, and I'd be happy to include these concerns in a letter with my name in it, as I have done for my local parks. I think it's also useful to acknowledge issues in discussion. Our park maintenance isn't a total embarrassment, but hardly meticulous. There are few systematic deficiencies in maintenance, but some combination of elements is usually observable such as tagging that isn't removed for months, poor edging when moving lawns, crumbling and uneven pathways, internal roads and parking lots, paint peeling off painted surfaces, badly vandalized benches in need of a coat of paint, broken water features, decaying boardwalks and docks, and dead grass.
 
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^^This was a point of discussion in the "Shabby Public Realm" thread that I think went off track. All of these issues come down to dollars and I don't pretend that this City has an easy time of setting priorities. That thread started with a discussion of streetscapes, and I fall into the category of people that find charm in our shabby chic streetscapes, above ground wires and all. While improvements to sidewalks etc. such as those on Roncesvalle, close to where I live, are much appreciated I am not one to get all worked up over some messes on the street. I lived for a good while in NY, which is a frequent comparator, and I believe we do as well as NY on trying to keep our streets in decent shape, which in this climate is a hell of a job. But what I would really like to see are improvements in the maintenance and state of our parks. We have some great parks, and they are very well used, but they could be much better maintained. On my last trip to NY a few weeks ago (my first in a couple years) I was impressed with the state of some of the parks that used to be more rundown, Washington Square in particular, which is looking great. The City budget is a tricky thing but this is one area that I believe would be a good area for the City to invest in given the amount of use seen by our parks. I spend a lot of time down at the lake in the western beaches, and the use of that park (largely through joggers and cyclists, but lots of families too) is off the charts while the park is in very mediocre shape.

But I agree entirely with jje1000 -- it's all about money. Look at the budgets of cities like Calgary and Chicago and you will see far higher amounts being paid per capita on parks and recreation than Toronto, and much of Toronto's parks and rec budget goes towards activities rather than parks maintenance. I don't for a moment suggest it is easy putting more money into park maintenance but I do believe it is worthwhile. There is no sense blaming the litterers, every city will have them, it is the money that is put towards parks maintenance and landscaping that will determine how well these parks look. It may be worthwhile looking at private/public partnerships, or relationships with BIAs, to see what could be done.
 
we pay quite high wages for upkeep of our parks. They are all unionized jobs, and the work culture is not outcome oriented, but rather putting in some time and what gets done gets done...AFAIK no one is holding anyones feet to the fire to work faster, improve technique, use better labour saving equipment, etc. Where I grew up, in S. Florida, crews of mostly hispanic workers would work all day mowing and keeping the grass, ball fields, flowers, and bushes in good shape. I worked two summers on public works crews maintaining ball fields..there was one full time guy on crew who made about 25K per year, and the rest of the workers were temp summer guys like me making 6/hour (this is early 90s). It was a character building experience, and the city got great value from us. The tradeoff -- cheaper services, but higher inequality/segregation with a large proportion of the work near minimum wage. I also think we use less fertilizer up here, making weeds more prominent in the grass. Also, the parks don't seem to be designed with maintenance/longevity in mind. It seems like an afterthought to be dealt with by someone else down the road.
 
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