Toronto Concord Canada House | 231.97m | 74s | Concord Adex | Arcadis

ehlow said:
OK so during Nuit Blanche tonight there were a lot of exhibits in CityPlace, so I walked through for the first time in a few years.

Retail wise it seemed OK. If I remember correctly it's much better than it used to be, with the new bridge, Fort York connecting to Bathurst, and new retail. The restaurant there looked nice, and it seemed to have the essentials (grocery store, coffee shop).

However, I have to say that from what I've seen of the Pan Am Village aka West Don Lands, which is comparable since it's also an entirely new neighbourhood built from scratch, I think I will prefer that to CityPlace once it opens. Just based on the renderings and seeing what's under construction now, and the park that's open there now.

Maybe they could continue to improve Fort York in CityPlace more by adding more retail/restaurants.
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Yes there is a lot more retail planed for the western portion of the site, and the development in question.

Actually I have the opposite fear for the West Donlands, I don't mind the grey, well I do but I think it'll ease over time, but I'm not sure there will really be enough retail in the area ? We'll see.
Honestly so far I like the architecture BETTER at city place from the 2nd floor up, there are several unique buildings in cityplace, whereas the west donlands just seems to repeat the new grey'ish style condo we see in many areas. While many will consider all city place buildings glass boxes they actually do differ quite a bit from phase to phase ..

My current issues with city place:
1) Still not enough retail in the central portion, but this can change, there are a lot of live work units, some have retail ..
2) The center medium ... is a grass strip, why no plant something interesting here ?
3) I think the park could use better upkeep in general.
4) I find the quality of finishing on the ground in the original few phases (early 2000) on the east side of Spadina very much lacking and poor in quality, like the infinity building, the new phases are much better in this regard
 
gmeo said:
What is considered an ugly building? What is considered better quality? Hindsight is always 20/20.
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Have you not looked at it? It's soul sucking, mind numbing, sterility. It's pedestrian cookie cutter stuff designed to go up as quickly and cheaply as possible. They had a giant blank canvas right next to downtown and built a 'Brampton in the Park'? We knew as soon as the renderings came out that this was going to be a massive FAIL. Hindsight had nothing to do with it.

River City offers lessons on how to do things right as does Five and the new condo next to Yorkville Condos. The one with the black brick.
 
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Cityplace is crammed between a rail corridor and Lake Shore Boulevard. It would always feel separate regardless of the age and timing of its development. It's far from perfect but, it certainly tops the disaster of Liberty Village. There are no emergency stairwells plopped between the grade units and sidewalks (at least I haven't seen any) or developments raised a half storey above the grade of the main street. Architecturally, it's no contest either. For all its faults, the lack of vibrancy or being a destination should not be a consideration. What exactly is wrong with a community focused residential development on some obscure plot in the downtown core. The Esplanade is a lonely walk most of the time too but, is also regarded as a huge success.

I love how everything always falls on the city. I'm not denying their involvement with the shape of the development but, let's not forget Canada Lands, the federal crown corporation, sold the 44 acres of land to Concord at the same time real estate prices were bottoming out and one 12 storey condo was the only privately developed high rise under construction in the city.
 
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Isaidso, Your trend towards hyperbole is getting nauseating. Quality is suspect but, you have an array of the city's top firms involved in this project. I don't see any resemblance to the actual gated towers in parks built by Bramalea which you find in Brampton.

Mind you, I was in high school at the time but, the topic of discussion back in 1995 when the Cityplace concept made it's first appearance on the first page of the Toronto Star was how crazy tall the towers were and how they would possibly sell all the units?
 
isaidso said:
Your tendency for the pedestrian is getting nauseating. Not to mention your lack of manners and civility.
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Civility?

That's a riot coming from you. I don't see mocking professional because they don't share your extreme viewpoints as being civil. Manners .. well, I hang out with business people.

I'll take my tendencies towards the pedestrian as a compliment as I don't find anything exceptional with your choices of projects and designers that you have previously expressed as propelling design forward. All I see some trendy features employed in order to excite the masses. I think everyone agrees River City stands out though. For its time, Page + Steele's Matrix stood out as well and, to a lesser extent, aA's Apex and Optima. Where Cityplace really started to go wrong is with KPF's Parade and follow up phase. Looking back at these early Clewes towers helps me appreciate how far the city has come.

It would have been interesting to have some large mixed use complexes in Cityplace. At the same time, it would be interesting to have a couple hundred thousand units mixed in with the 50 million square feet of office space centred around Bay and King. At some point, you have to face reality.
 
Having lived in both Liberty Village and CityPlace, I'll have to say CityPlace wins hands down. The amount of traffic in Liberty Village and the reliance on the car to get around is just too much. Just look at the sidewalks to see that cars are given the priority in Liberty Village. They are tiny sidewalks. Felt no different than when I lived in Mississauga. Downtown felt too disconnected from LV, there were no good options for groceries, and it was a pain for visitors to get to. I felt much safer as a pedestrian in CityPlace, and it feels much more open and green than LV. Maybe 'suburban' to many here... but a breath of fresh air for many others.

It may not be 'urban' in the Toronto sense, but it is definitely urban in the Vancouver sense. Lots of light penetration, wide sidewalks, and open space. There is plenty of room for improvement in CityPlace, and it seems to be heading in that direction. The only thing missing in CityPlace is that little bit of office development, however, it seems that many of the Live/Work units are now being repurposed to just that.
 
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isaidso said:
Have you not looked at it? It's soul sucking, mind numbing, sterility. It's pedestrian cookie cutter stuff designed to go up as quickly and cheaply as possible. They had a giant blank canvas right next to downtown and built a 'Brampton in the Park'? We knew as soon as the renderings came out that this was going to be a massive FAIL. Hindsight had nothing to do with it.

River City offers lessons on how to do things right as does Five and the new condo next to Yorkville Condos. The one with the black brick.
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LoL! You seem to know so much about CityPlace, so why didn't you do something about it as soon as you saw the renderings??

Let me guess, you knew River City was going to be "done right" by looking at the renderings and that's why you bought in that development to live?? So easy to bash/praise the development now... hindsight has everything to do with it!
 
^^ I hope not, but they got so many things wrong it doesn't give one much reason to believe it will ever be successfully integrated into the downtown. It's a big missed opportunity for our city.

maestro said:
Civility?
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Correct. Your lack of manners and general unpleasantness is deplorable. That may pass for normal discourse in your circles, but it doesn't pass muster with me. Your posts do not get read. And you're not the only one. The fella below is equally snotty, rude, and condescending.

Has it ever occurred to you that you can disagree with someone without resorting to insults? Just sickening how people talk to one another on here.
 
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gmeo said:
You seem to know so much about CityPlace, so why didn't you do something about it as soon as you saw the renderings??
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I did. We steered our investment dollars elsewhere and advised others we know to do the same. I waited till it was almost finished to pass judgement, but my initial impressions were bang on. It's terrible. If Toronto looked like City Place, I'd move to another city.
 
Big Daddy said:
We could well be watching the seed for a future ghetto.

https://ca.yahoo.com/finance/news/c...s-buildings-fall-apart-051254182--sector.html
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Pretty crappy article. Sure there are some problems, but the article does a terrible job of identifying what they actually are, while it reports various claims without any explanation as to why we should believe them.

The building code does need more enforcement, no doubt about it, but that’s not a code problem. The condo act is being rewritten. No mention of that. There is no basis to claim that in 50 years these buildings will be urban slums. That’s not challenged at all. I live in a 56 year-old building, and like any building you have to maintain it. Because we value our homes, as does any owner, we are willing to do what it takes. As investors sell units, owner-occupier types generally buy, and the percentage of them in the building goes up. The condo act requires that enough money be set aside for state-of-good-repair costs. So, convince me of why owners who have invested hard-earned money would let their building become a slum.

42
 
taal said:
cityplace feels less suburban every year ... with more restaurants and other retail opening ... but I'm sure regardless what changes folks who view city place has a failure from day one, who likely have never have set foot in it since then will never change their minds.
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Almost as if it takes time for a neighbourhood to settle in.
 
isaidso said:
I did. We steered our investment dollars elsewhere and advised others we know to do the same. I waited till it was almost finished to pass judgement, but my initial impressions were bang on. It's terrible. If Toronto looked like City Place, I'd move to another city.
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Well maybe you did all these things, maybe you didn't. I commend your discipline in withholding judgement for 15 years, until now.
In fact CityPlace has gotten better every year.
 
isaidso said:
^^ I hope not, but they got so many things wrong it doesn't give one much reason to believe it will ever be successfully integrated into the downtown. It's a big missed opportunity for our city.



Correct. Your lack of manners and general unpleasantness is deplorable. That may pass for normal discourse in your circles, but it doesn't pass muster with me. Your posts do not get read. And you're not the only one. The fella below is equally snotty, rude, and condescending.

Has it ever occurred to you that you can disagree with someone without resorting to insults? Just sickening how people talk to one another on here.
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Wow. There is something seriously wrong with you. I've never experienced anyone so self absorbed. You're posts are highly depreciating to professionals in the field and anyone else that doesn't share your peculiar tastes. Keep your self righteousness to yourself.
 
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