Toronto CityLights on Broadway | 115.82m | 34s | Pemberton | Wallman Architects

[Silence&Motion]

I really worry about the future of Yonge and Eglinton (particularly the NE section). It seems like they're building downtown densities, with near-suburban level amenities (by amenities I mean retail, public space, etc - not private condo amenities).

In downtown, for example, you have a major retail street in about 200-300m in any direction. At Yonge and Eglinton, those are the only two streets with retail options. Mount Pleasant should provide additional amenities to the east, but all of the new buildings going in have no retail. There's also nothing to the north. Redpath Ave. really should provide light retail as well (the equivalent of, say, a Harbord Street). The blocks are also surprisingly large, and should have been broken up with alleyways and pedestrian passageways to urbanize them.

Even NYCC has done a much better job at urbanization, providing generous amounts of public amenities and breaking up large blocks. Sure, there's still only a few major retail stretches, but dense development has been kept within a block of those major streets.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Eglinton Connects and Midtown in Focus addresses some of your concerns.

I agree, it would be nice to see Redpath have some light retail as well, restaurants for starters.

 

[ehlow]

I really worry about the future of Yonge and Eglinton (particularly the NE section). It seems like they're building downtown densities, with near-suburban level amenities (by amenities I mean retail, public space, etc - not private condo amenities).

In downtown, for example, you have a major retail street in about 200-300m in any direction. At Yonge and Eglinton, those are the only two streets with retail options. Mount Pleasant should provide additional amenities to the east, but all of the new buildings going in have no retail. There's also nothing to the north. Redpath Ave. really should provide light retail as well (the equivalent of, say, a Harbord Street). The blocks are also surprisingly large, and should have been broken up with alleyways and pedestrian passageways to urbanize them.

Even NYCC has done a much better job at urbanization, providing generous amounts of public amenities and breaking up large blocks. Sure, there's still only a few major retail stretches, but dense development has been kept within a block of those major streets.

While I agree more retail on certain streets would be good, I don't agree with your characterization of "near suburban" level amenities.

Yonge St is a great retail street as a focus point for the neighbourhood, Eglinton is retail, not as nice, but OK. You've also got Mt Pleasant, Bayview and Eglinton West.

It's a very walkable neighbourhood. There are also plenty of parks near by, but I agree that certain things could be improved.

 

[taal]

There are a ton of trails / parks, but unlike NYCC which has Mel Lastmen square right there, they are all a 5/10 min walk away, so there is some valid argument there is very little greenspace right at Y&E.

One big exception ... the new school in the tridel development ... the artificial track / field is soo busy every day of the week ! (more so then just about any other park you'll find in Toronto I'd argue), but that's not necessarily good, it implies the area can do with even more such space.

I'm going the old bus station can give a small / medium size park along with new development.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Eglinton Connects and Midtown in Focus addresses some of your concerns.

Thanks for posting the Midtown in Focus document. I'm not sure if it "addresses" my concerns, so much as "shares" my concerns. But it's good to know people at the city are working on this problem. I fear that attempts to urbanize the street grid will need to rely on compliance from the property owners of all of those "towers in the park". If they were willing to play ball, there's definitely a lot of potential there, but I doubt they'll be in a rush to give up their land for expanded sidewalks or pedestrian connections. Also, if the OMB keeps granting new developers whatever they want, we'll have trouble using leverage to make them contribute to the urbanization of the street grid.

While I agree more retail on certain streets would be good, I don't agree with your characterization of "near suburban" level amenities.

Yonge St is a great retail street as a focus point for the neighbourhood, Eglinton is retail, not as nice, but OK. You've also got Mt Pleasant, Bayview and Eglinton West.

It's a very walkable neighbourhood. There are also plenty of parks near by, but I agree that certain things could be improved.

Yes, Yonge street is a pretty good street. Eglinton is improving. But let's think of the hundreds of the new people who will now be moving to Redpath and Broadway. They step out of their building in the morning to get a coffee. It's 400m to get to Yonge or 300m to get to Eglinton. At only 220m, Mt Pleasant would be a great option, except that it has virtually no retail north of Eglinton (again, it's the NEW developments along Mt. Pleasant that have no retail and they're not going anywhere, so the opportunities for improvement are limited).

So they pick Eglinton, grab a coffee, and now they're looking for a place to sit and drink it. The most obvious place is Eglinton Park, which is 1km away. Or they could walk straight back up Redpath for 500m and go to the Redpath Parkette. So, whether they go to Yonge or Eglinton, they're basically walking 1km to get a coffee and drink it in a public space. These are similar distances that it took me living in the Warden and Huntingwood area to grab a coffee and find a park. The difference is, I lived in a detached, single family home, not a high-rise condominium.

Now, think of someone living on Charles street (between Yonge and Church), which is very similar to Redpath in the sense that it is experiencing rapid intensification. To get their coffee in the morning, they have the option of Yonge (150m), Church (160m), Bloor (350m), Jarvis (350m), Bay (400m), Wellesley (600m). And in terms of parks, I can count over a dozen within 1km of where they live (the closest being George Hislop, only a few meters away). This is the level of amenity provision required to support a high-density neighbourhood.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

There needs to be places to sit and drink on the street. Not in parks and parkettes that are too far away. That is how a city made for people should look like.

The area in front of Demetre on Redpath and Eglinton would be the prime location for this.

 

[avenirv]

isn't walking a good thing ?

 

[avenirv]

maybe walking a little Canadians will be slimmer...

 

[Silence&Motion]

I should also add that with 1000s of residents moving into the area around Redpath and Broadway, it's going to be a very busy stretch of sidewalk back and forth to Yonge (to say nothing of the people who choose to stick with their cars). One way that urban neighbourhoods better absorb high populations densities, is that people have multiple paths to choose from and places to go in every direction. They're not all forced into the same path in the same direction (which is a very suburban way of organizing movement).

 

[dowlingm]

I'm not sure from the appeal document but am guessing this was an appeal heard on grounds that the City did not act within the specified timeframe?

 

[interchange42]

Correct. No final report was issued.

42

 

[ehlow]

Thanks for posting the Midtown in Focus document. I'm not sure if it "addresses" my concerns, so much as "shares" my concerns. But it's good to know people at the city are working on this problem. I fear that attempts to urbanize the street grid will need to rely on compliance from the property owners of all of those "towers in the park". If they were willing to play ball, there's definitely a lot of potential there, but I doubt they'll be in a rush to give up their land for expanded sidewalks or pedestrian connections. Also, if the OMB keeps granting new developers whatever they want, we'll have trouble using leverage to make them contribute to the urbanization of the street grid.



Yes, Yonge street is a pretty good street. Eglinton is improving. But let's think of the hundreds of the new people who will now be moving to Redpath and Broadway. They step out of their building in the morning to get a coffee. It's 400m to get to Yonge or 300m to get to Eglinton. At only 220m, Mt Pleasant would be a great option, except that it has virtually no retail north of Eglinton (again, it's the NEW developments along Mt. Pleasant that have no retail and they're not going anywhere, so the opportunities for improvement are limited).

So they pick Eglinton, grab a coffee, and now they're looking for a place to sit and drink it. The most obvious place is Eglinton Park, which is 1km away. Or they could walk straight back up Redpath for 500m and go to the Redpath Parkette. So, whether they go to Yonge or Eglinton, they're basically walking 1km to get a coffee and drink it in a public space. These are similar distances that it took me living in the Warden and Huntingwood area to grab a coffee and find a park. The difference is, I lived in a detached, single family home, not a high-rise condominium.

Now, think of someone living on Charles street (between Yonge and Church), which is very similar to Redpath in the sense that it is experiencing rapid intensification. To get their coffee in the morning, they have the option of Yonge (150m), Church (160m), Bloor (350m), Jarvis (350m), Bay (400m), Wellesley (600m). And in terms of parks, I can count over a dozen within 1km of where they live (the closest being George Hislop, only a few meters away). This is the level of amenity provision required to support a high-density neighbourhood.

Umm.. I see nothing wrong with walking 300-400m to go for coffee. That's less than a 5 min walk.

Lots of people live in apartments in that neighbourhood and walk to Yonge street for retail, restaurants, coffee.

Also you don't necessarily need to walk to Eglinton Park to drink your coffee. Many coffee shops have patios & indoor seating as well.

 

[taal]

I question how all of these will do anyway, Tridel's project on Erscikine has been in sales for years with no movement, not even sure if that's still a go ! The projects on Yonge / closer to Yonge / Eglinton do well.

 

[ehlow]

I question how all of these will do anyway, Tridel's project on Erscikine has been in sales for years with no movement, not even sure if that's still a go ! The projects on Yonge / closer to Yonge / Eglinton do well.

Yeah.. many projects seem to be on hold. For example the Redpath & Roehampton ones seem to be in limbo.

 

[dowlingm]

Correct. No final report was issued.

42

maybe the new council will fund Planning to the degree that development and statutory responsibility demand, rather than whining about developers getting a free pass to appeal. If so, we'll need tougher condo glass that can take a hit from flying pigs.

Instead we're likely to see a move to see some sort of supine body supplant the OMB, and then the courts getting involved if the pendulum swings too far towards nimby demanded standstills of applications.