Toronto CIBC SQUARE | 241.39m | 50s | Hines | WilkinsonEyre

  • Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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From Ivanhoe Cambridge, with a memorable quote from Del Duca, of course:

http://www.ivanhoecambridge.com/en/news-and-media/news/2017/04/metrolinx

Our GO bus system is a key part of our region’s transit network and Union Station is Canada’s busiest and most important multi-modal passenger facility in Toronto. We are pleased to work with Metrolinx and Ivanhoé Cambridge on this exciting integrated plan - bringing bus and rail transit together to provide Ontarians with a more seamless and stress-free travel experience,
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If can only say that the experience with Union Station for the last decade as "stress free".

Filip said:
If anyone can confirm... media has been saying this is a twin tower 49 storey development and some of the renderings are unclear.

Did the second tower lose a few storeys or is this just a small inaccuracy in the articles?
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That's what the press release from Ivanhoe Cambridge suggests:

http://www.ivanhoecambridge.com/en/news-and-media/news/2017/04/hines

But we know that the number of floors can vary depending on whether one count mechanical, etc

AoD
 
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49 refers to the last useable office floor.
 
In the new render, it's interesting to see just how these Bay Park edifices outclass all the stuff that Pinnacle has built in the same area. Not to tar Pinnacle yet again, but the render illustrates that this city needs more good work. I wish that the city could push harder on 1-7 Yonge.
 
TonyV said:
In the new render, it's interesting to see just how these Bay Park edifices outclass all the stuff that Pinnacle has built in the same area. Not to tar Pinnacle yet again, but the render illustrates that this city needs more good work. I wish that the city could push harder on 1-7 Yonge.
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No kidding that - I fear for 1-7 Yonge given the track record of the dev.

AoD
 
Wade Arsenault said:
This is a hideous building. It's the last thing the city needs. What of the residential building at 18 Yonge Street. It will be completely shadowed of sunlight. What of hhe residence in the area and our livable city.
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It actually won't cause much shadowing on 18 Yonge. It will be almost directly west of that building, so the sun will have to be in the extreme west of the sky (i.e. at dusk) for any shadow concerns on 18 Yonge.
 
Filip said:
So the city documents stating height are still accurate?
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According to the documents filed with the City, the north tower has more usable floor space in the crown because it has smaller mechanicals. I'm not sure if that's related to not having a bus terminal in the base of that one, but that's my guess. In any case, I tend to believe splashy "we're moving" press releases less than I do architectural drawings that the City has on file.

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Meanwhile, there's this FAQ from the CIBC's internal mail service from yesterday…

GTA Colleagues:


Today, we announced that CIBC has agreed to become the anchor tenant at a new, world-class urban campus coming to downtown Toronto. The new campus will become our homebase and global headquarters. It will also create a truly modern work environment that fosters collaboration and innovation, as we bring the best of CIBC to our clients and build the bank of the future. You can read more in the blog on CIBC Today (or see attached).


With this exciting news, many may be wondering who will move to the new buildings and when.


These details have yet to be worked out; however, planning has already begun. Our goal is to keep our Toronto-area teams informed about plans and progress, and to provide ample notice of key decisions concerning future work locations.


Stay tuned for more updates in the months ahead.


Q&A


1. Why are we making this investment?

This move will optimize CIBC’s real estate footprint to meet the future needs of our workforce and our clients. It will be a modern business environment, designed to enhance employee and client experience.


We see it as a differentiator that will improve productivity, and help us attract and retain the best talent. This is a big step forward for CIBC as we mark our 150th year and continue to build the bank of the future that serves our clients here in Canada and around the world.


It will also reinforce Toronto’s position as a global financial capital and is an investment in this city as a place to work, live and explore.



2. Who is moving to this new location?

About 15,000 employees will be relocating from locations across the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) as the buildings are ready between 2020 and 2023. The new campus will include a mix of team members across Retail & Business Banking, Wealth Management, Capital Markets and our infrastructure teams.


We will continue to have a presence at a number of other locations in the GTA. In addition, no changes are planned to our banking centres as a result of this agreement, including our Commerce Court banking centre.

3. When will employees find out if they are moving?

Teams will begin moving to the new location in 2020 when the first building is complete. More teams will follow when the second building is completed in 2023.


There is a lot of planning ahead to determine the details of who is moving and when. We will keep you updated and share information as plans are confirmed.

4. Why this development?

This specific development has many unique features that make it appealing to us:

· Location = access to transit (Union Station – transportation hub, subway, GO, bus), bike paths, highways

· 49 floors per tower with large, efficient floor plates = efficient use of square footage

· LEED Platinum and Delos WELL standards

· Tech-enabled = part of the planning from the ground up with modern, innovative technology

· A spectacular one-acre elevated park linking the towers to each other and serving as an inspirational urban green outdoor space for CIBC employees, clients and the public

· Connected space in two very well-located buildings in the downtown core



5. How can employees find out more information or get involved?

We are committed to keeping our teams informed as decisions are made and details become available. We will share more information in the months ahead.​
 
Given the reasoning above (which is all true), it does leave the other banks at a disadvantage as most of their operations are also spread across dozens of buildings, not just downtown, but all over the GTA. For example, RBC Waterpark Place is such a small piece of that bank's real estate footprint.. Same with BMO and FCP/BMTT, etc...

If this triggers a consolidation spree from the big banks, this will be the first of many mega developments.

It is exciting to see that a lot of this space is also being vacated from suburban office parks. Downtown is where you want to be, not Meadowvale.
 
Be nice but, there isn't that much of a crossover between (your example) the FCP head office and the retail end at BMTT to bring it all under one roof . CIBC is also in the best and the most desperate to do something grand like this having gone from the second largest (slightly larger than TD) to the smallest of the five (less than half the size of TD) in about 20 years. The probability is now takeover instead of merger.
 
there are, of course, a couple of problems with consolidations on such a mass scale as this and it might explain why others have not done this.

  1. cost. For CIBC to use 1.75MM s.f. and house 15,000 people that is a huge part of their non-branch GTA operations (doubt that it is all, but it could be close). There is a reason why some operations found themselves out in Mississauga and at 750 Lawrence and the like.....they are functions that do not need to be downtown and they are functions that need a lot of people/space. Shifting a significant number of people from non downtown core locations to downtown core locations is counter intuitive. It may make the "everybody should work downtown and then there are no jobs in the burbs" crowd happy...but in reality not every job need be downtown and it makes very little sense for some to be paying high occupancy cost;
  2. Security/continuity.....sadly this is a huge concern these days and having offices spread around the core makes you less vulnerable to some event that makes it hard/impossible to get people into the building. During the g20, for instance, lots of companies inside the fence were able to re-assign workers to other company locations and continue with their functions. If you have less of those alternative locations (ie. your workforce is concentrated in one location) this is much more difficult.

CIBC has made a call...it may turn out to be the right one....they are certainly getting a lot of ink for it.....but it is not the first time that CIBC has zigged when their peers are zagging.
 
maestro said:
Be nice but, there isn't that much of a crossover between (your example) the FCP head office and the retail end at BMTT to bring it all under one roof . CIBC is also in the best and the most desperate to do something grand like this having gone from the second largest (slightly larger than TD) to the smallest of the five (less than half the size of TD) in about 20 years. The probability is now takeover instead of merger.
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My business unit at BMO (back when I worked there) was evenly split between BMTT and FCP, which was a huge pain in the neck and accounted for a lot of taxi fares.
 
Amazed it took so long for this parking lot to get filled in considering it's one of the best sites in the entire country. But it's a huge parcel of land.

Hopefully the CIBC signage isn't obnoxious. I wish we didn't have corporate branding on our buildings at all.
 
TOareaFan said:
there are, of course, a couple of problems with consolidations on such a mass scale as this and it might explain why others have not done this.

  1. cost. For CIBC to use 1.75MM s.f. and house 15,000 people that is a huge part of their non-branch GTA operations (doubt that it is all, but it could be close). There is a reason why some operations found themselves out in Mississauga and at 750 Lawrence and the like.....they are functions that do not need to be downtown and they are functions that need a lot of people/space. Shifting a significant number of people from non downtown core locations to downtown core locations is counter intuitive. It may make the "everybody should work downtown and then there are no jobs in the burbs" crowd happy...but in reality not every job need be downtown and it makes very little sense for some to be paying high occupancy cost;
  2. Security/continuity.....sadly this is a huge concern these days and having offices spread around the core makes you less vulnerable to some event that makes it hard/impossible to get people into the building. During the g20, for instance, lots of companies inside the fence were able to re-assign workers to other company locations and continue with their functions. If you have less of those alternative locations (ie. your workforce is concentrated in one location) this is much more difficult.

CIBC has made a call...it may turn out to be the right one....they are certainly getting a lot of ink for it.....but it is not the first time that CIBC has zigged when their peers are zagging.
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CIBC ... as well as other banks I assume have massive back up offices in Vaughn that just sit empty until needed (ie for the g20, or when a tech team is impacted by a weekend building maintenance). Also if your job is deemed critical they make sure you can work from home if needed as well. Work from home is something they are pushing hard.. and I suspect this building is going to have many work from home floor plates like 18 york.... where it's just one long row of desks with side by side seating that you have to reserve your seat if you have to come into the office for a meeting. If you need to come with no desks available your out of luck. Prolly why CIBC likes that one acre park.
 
TOareaFan said:
there are, of course, a couple of problems with consolidations on such a mass scale as this and it might explain why others have not done this.

  1. cost. For CIBC to use 1.75MM s.f. and house 15,000 people that is a huge part of their non-branch GTA operations (doubt that it is all, but it could be close). There is a reason why some operations found themselves out in Mississauga and at 750 Lawrence and the like.....they are functions that do not need to be downtown and they are functions that need a lot of people/space. Shifting a significant number of people from non downtown core locations to downtown core locations is counter intuitive. It may make the "everybody should work downtown and then there are no jobs in the burbs" crowd happy...but in reality not every job need be downtown and it makes very little sense for some to be paying high occupancy cost;
  2. Security/continuity.....sadly this is a huge concern these days and having offices spread around the core makes you less vulnerable to some event that makes it hard/impossible to get people into the building. During the g20, for instance, lots of companies inside the fence were able to re-assign workers to other company locations and continue with their functions. If you have less of those alternative locations (ie. your workforce is concentrated in one location) this is much more difficult.

CIBC has made a call...it may turn out to be the right one....they are certainly getting a lot of ink for it.....but it is not the first time that CIBC has zigged when their peers are zagging.
Click to expand...
Part of the move downtown is that many businesses are finding that their top prospects and most valuable workers now typically want to work downtown. If they don't provide jobs there, they have a harder time attracting and keeping the employees they want.

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