Toronto CIBC SQUARE | 241.39m | 50s | Hines | WilkinsonEyre

  • Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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^ That was only a "conceptual image" to show the sort of building that could be built on the site. As far as I know, the actual SITQ design is still under wraps, if it has even been worked on -- although the actual design is almost certainly somewhat shorter than this at 40-50 storeys, probably about the same height, or somewhat shorter than, the tallest black building on the upper left hand side of the image.

Not to say that I would not love to see something like this.
 
mini Hancock tower indeed ... haha I wonder if anyone who bought / lives in 18 Yonge knew what would be happening to this site ... 18 Yonge will look so tiny in comparison ... poor poor thing

FYI this is not 45 bay street. 45 bay street is south of where the maple leaf buildings are going where the vacant 5 story office building is now.
 
45 Bay Street is located on the east side of Bay Street (as indicated by the odd number), directly across from the Air Canada Centre and directly west of 18 Yonge. I don't know where any other information would come from.

As for the "poor poor" people at 18 Yonge, my guess would be that most of them knew very well that something would be built at 45 Bay, sooner or later, given that their own building was going on the other half of the block. Most people by now realize that if there is a vacant lot in a prime downtown location, there is good potential for a development to go on it. :rolleyes:
 
FYI this is not 45 bay street. 45 bay street is south of where the maple leaf buildings are going where the vacant 5 story office building is now.

you are thinking of 90 Harbour Street, the building was owned by ORC and it was being sold for redevelopment
 
I wonder if we can smuggle a couple of UT'ers into the building to get construction shots from the roof. They could live in the official UT tent and survive on berries and captured wildlife, not to mention all the fish you can catch in L. Ontario. Any volunteers?
 
Credit shortage chokes office building boom

LORI MCLEOD

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

November 24, 2008 at 10:18 PM EST

The Canadian office building boom has run into a wall.

Hit by a shortage of funds, many borrowers can't get loans for construction or mortgages. That means a number of proposed projects are being put back on the shelf to wait for better days.

Even well-capitalized companies including Brookfield Properties Corp., one of the country's largest owners of high-quality office buildings, are becoming more conservative about new projects.

“I think it's reasonable for anybody who has a proposed development or a development in the initial stages, that they are re-evaluating whether to go or not to go ahead. That will likely be driven by what kind of leasing they have in place,†said Tom Farley, president of Canadian commercial operations at Brookfield Properties.

Brookfield has two Canadian projects under construction, Toronto's Bay Adelaide Centre and Bankers Court in Calgary.

The Bay Adelaide project was given the green light when it was 25 per cent preleased, Mr. Farley said. The building is now 75 per cent preleased and scheduled for completion next year.

For any new projects, however, Brookfield will seek preleasing levels of between 40 to 60 per cent. This includes the proposed second phase of Bay Adelaide, Mr. Farley said.

“Now is not the time to build on [speculation],†he added.

Other property developers appear to share this view. At a recent industry event, a representative of SITQ, a real estate subsidiary of the Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, said the pension fund will likely develop a planned office project at 45 Bay St. in Toronto during the next round of real estate construction, expected around 2015.

In the past, SITQ has had a higher tolerance for risk than some other developers, building projects on speculation, or without preleasing, in cities including Paris, France, and Calgary.

One of these projects, the first phase of Calgary's Eighth Avenue Place, is now under construction. Bets in the industry are that most new projects, including the second phase of that development, will likely be put on hold for the time being.

“The cost means it makes more sense right now for the strong players to build liquidity and get ready to buy cheap when people's mortgages come due,†said Michael Smith, an analyst at National Bank Financial.

A dearth of available funds in the Canadian commercial mortgage market, which is valued at an estimated $15-billion, has been driving up borrowing costs for those who can raise capital, despite falling interest rates.

Much of the problem is fallout from the global credit crisis, which has choked off one of the industry's key funding sources, commercial mortgage-backed securities. Fears about commercial mortgage defaults in the United States are now indirectly causing more pain.

After months of stability, the cost of default protection on high-quality mortgage bonds has soared, according to the CMBX Markit index. That's partly being driven by news that two commercial mortgage borrowers in the United States are expected to default on loans made to them by JPMorgan Chase & Co., valued at $334-million (U.S.).

“If lenders start seeing more defaults in the U.S., the typical bank or [life insurance company] in Canada can't help but be nervous about some spillover. The U.S. is a leading indicator. We know there's already been spillover in residential, and it's not hard to draw that line from residential to commercial,†Mr. Smith said.

With the end of the year approaching, many traditional real estate lenders – banks, life insurance companies and pension funds – have already dramatically reduced their financing activities.

A drop in the value of public equities means many pension funds have soared past their target allocations in real estate, with some even being forced to sell off holdings to achieve their required asset mix.

The Caisse, for example, has been one of the country's most prominent real estate lenders. But it recently said it would scale back real estate and private equity investing as a result of its stock market losses.

A big question is whether there will be more capital available for borrowers next year when lenders are working with fresh budgets, said John O'Bryan, vice-chairman, Canada, at CB Richard Ellis.

Despite rumours that some office projects now being built will get scaled back, most have secured construction financing and will get finished, Mr. O'Bryan said.

Developers are contractually obligated to lessors, contractors and equipment suppliers, and trying to halt a project can actually be more expensive than finishing it, he added.

One high-profile project without financing is EnCana Corp.'s new head office in Calgary, owned by H&R Real Estate Investment Trust. H&R recently said it will consider selling assets to fund the project, and one analyst has suggested a major distribution cut could be on the horizon.
 
this project is exciting, even though its years away. it was mentioned in the union station revitalization presentation. let's keep our collective fingers crossed.
 
seeing as how the Caisse just lost $40 billion it may be a long time before they get around to building anything here
 
That's not necessarily bad for this site tho. If their losses get to a certain point they may start selling off assets like that plot of land, and it may end up in the hands of someone more intent to develop it
 
If I was guessing, I'd guess that no one at all will be developing this site until well into the next real estate cycle. We all know of huge chunks of new office space coming to market within the next year or so (Bay-Adelaide, RBC, Telus, the office part of Maple Leaf Square). That will have to be soaked up, in a recessionary atmosphere, not to mention some of the vacancy about to be created in the older towers.
 
Well, the Epmpire State Buidling was built during the Great Depression, and was empty during most of the 30s, so it's nothing new.
 
Thankfully, those days of slave wages and the disregard for human life that allowed the Empire State to be built are glady gone. Pension funds also couldn't care any less about outdoing their rivals such as with General Motor's Empire State and Chrysler's Chrysler Building.
 

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