Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[kkgg7]

He also would have thrown a celebration when the old Toronto Star building was replaced by FCP because obviously bigger is better.

I appreciate the sarcasm. However, as I mentioned several times, old doesn't mean "character", "history" etc. Paris is full of old buildings and few highrises in the core but the city is gorgeous. I would prefer a Paris-like Toronto where walking downtown is like wandering in history. But Toronto will never stand a chance of being anything close to that, will it?

Anyone can see the old Toronto star building looks like crap now (but nothing to do with the word "historic" whatsoever). It needs a lot of work on it. If decide between the current building and another FCP, yes, I definitely prefer a FCP since it is such a big eyesore right now and FCP is at least not that ugly. Pretending it holds any historic value or charm is pure fantasy. Remember, no matter how many old buildings we try to keep, few of which are worth keeping, Toronto will never be anything close to a Paris or Rome. It has no history, no real distinctive culture (not the cliche "diversity" thing). You on the other hand, seems to be in the illusion that if we maintain all those hideous 100 year old buildings, Toronto will look classy and "historic". I have been to many real historic cities (Beijing, Edinburgh, Rome etc), where a 400 year old building is not considered as "old" so Toronto will never stand a chance. It sounds funny to me when people mention something built in 1890 solemnly as if it is a big deal.

 

[old boy]

I don't think anyone outside of a town with a population of 7 would consider Torontonians gruff and unfriendly. Standoffish or passive aggressive, maybe but unfriendly, nope.

And Chicago's population is somelthing like 2.9 million (not including the greater urban area) while Toronto's is about 2.6 million -I suppose that's why people think they're comparable.

And there are similarities. The Great Lakes build/architecture, the lakes themselves, the historic second *cityness* etc.

But they feel very different, notwithstanding they have very different population make-ups. Chicago is a very attractive city, Toronto is attractive in areas -overall though I prefer the *feel* of Toronto. Chicago actually feels like the New York of the Midwest. Toronto, despite all efforts to pigeonhole it and give it a comparative description actually just feels like Toronto. It's way more unique in the Americas than it gets credit for.

OttoSchloss has nailed it. Some wouldn't put Toronto in a favourable light no how. This thread is past it's due date.

 

[Red October]

Those guys are from here. Most of that list is true. In no way is Toronto better at anything than New York City.

Then they are following the popular crowd of selling our city short and being incredibly negative. Not the type that the city benefits from.
Toronto's waterfront, as bad as it is, still beats New York's by far. Toronto is also infinitely safer, cleaner, and despite the decades old stereotype, their comment about how people from Toronto are rude and New York is not is completely false.

Half is correct, the other half is hogwash.

When I go to station, I am paying fare waiting for the next train. Not running an HGTV special.[/QUOTE]

That comment wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at kkgg7, who was saying we have no nice or clean subway stations.

 

[Red October]

I appreciate the sarcasm. However, as I mentioned several times, old doesn't mean "character", "history" etc. Paris is full of old buildings and few highrises in the core but the city is gorgeous. I would prefer a Paris-like Toronto where walking downtown is like wandering in history. But Toronto will never stand a chance of being anything close to that, will it?

Anyone can see the old Toronto star building looks like crap now (but nothing to do with the word "historic" whatsoever). It needs a lot of work on it. If decide between the current building and another FCP, yes, I definitely prefer a FCP since it is such a big eyesore right now and FCP is at least not that ugly. Pretending it holds any historic value or charm is pure fantasy. Remember, no matter how many old buildings we try to keep, few of which are worth keeping, Toronto will never be anything close to a Paris or Rome. It has no history, no real distinctive culture (not the cliche "diversity" thing). You on the other hand, seems to be in the illusion that if we maintain all those hideous 100 year old buildings, Toronto will look classy and "historic". I have been to many real historic cities (Beijing, Edinburgh, Rome etc), where a 400 year old building is not considered as "old" so Toronto will never stand a chance. It sounds funny to me when people mention something built in 1890 solemnly as if it is a big deal.

1. You seem to be talking about 1 Yonge.. He meant the OLD Toronto Star building that was demolished.

2. Just because it's not 400 years old doesn't make it worthless. With that mentality there would be no 400 year old buildings now because they all would have been "worthless" when they were 100! There are plenty, PLENTY of buildings less than a hundred years old that are more significant historically than some 400 year old buildings in Paris or London. Also, Toronto does have history, and claiming otherwise is just ignorant and short sighted.

 

[Thanos]

Anyone can see the old Toronto star building looks like crap now (but nothing to do with the word "historic" whatsoever). It needs a lot of work on it.

I'm talking about the old Toronto Star building that was torn down to make way fro FCP.

 

[Ladies Mile]

I'm talking about the old Toronto Star building that was torn down to make way fro FCP.

I am fine with trading a rather mundane New York knock-off for a major work by Edward Durrell Stone.

 

[Thanos]

I am fine with trading a rather mundane New York knock-off for a major work by Edward Durrell Stone.

With that in mind, let's tear down TD Centre because it's a Seagrams knock-off. After that let's head straight to Cabbagetown.

 

[Ladies Mile]

With that in mind, let's tear down TD Centre because it's a Seagrams knock-off. After that let's head straight to Cabbagetown.

If you can't tell the difference between a competent but by no means remarkable building, the like of which are a dime a dozen in any American city, and what may be the greatest skyscraper design of a still-to-be-appreciated post-war talent, I am afraid there's not much point in arguing the matter.

I might add that the TD Centre stands on the site of a major work by Carrere & Hastings. I dare say you wouldn't care to trade back for the old building in that instance.

 

[Johnny Kay]

Lovechild names Chiconto.

 

[Thanos]

If you can't tell the difference between a competent but by no means remarkable building, the like of which are a dime a dozen in any American city, and what may be the greatest skyscraper design of a still-to-be-appreciated post-war talent, I am afraid there's not much point in arguing the matter.

I might add that the TD Centre stands on the site of a major work by Carrere & Hastings. I dare say you wouldn't care to trade back for the old building in that instance.

Actually, i would love it if all 4 were still standing. And if you consider the old Toronto Star building a plain old competent building and nothing more tells there's no point in arguing the matter.

Is that supposed to be the Chicago Spire? Unfortunately that was cancelled in 2008 .

 

[Ladies Mile]

Actually, i would love it if all 4 were still standing. And if you consider the old Toronto Star building a plain old competent building and nothing more tells there's no point in arguing the matter.

Is that supposed to be the Chicago Spire? Unfortunately that was cancelled in 2008 .

Feel free to inform me how the TSB was in any way different from the standard issue high-end setbacks-code inspired stuff seen down south from Yakima to Syracuse. A good example of its type, perhaps, but nothing unusual.

FCP is one of only three skyscraper designs by Edward Durrell Stone and is the only one to retain its full original detailing. It is an excellent neighbour to the TDC and contributes to what is arguably the greatest urban crossroads in North America--the crossroads of Bay and King.

 

[Softee]

New York city population 18.5 million
Chicago 9.2 million
Toronto 5 million

how could u compare these cities!!???

You can't compare American MSAs to Canadian CMAs - apples and oranges. A more accurate comparison between Chicago and Toronto would be the Chicago MSA vs. the combined Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa CMAs or the Chicago CSA with the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

 

[Softee]

I don't think anyone outside of a town with a population of 7 would consider Torontonians gruff and unfriendly. Standoffish or passive aggressive, maybe but unfriendly, nope.

And Chicago's population is somelthing like 2.9 million (not including the greater urban area) while Toronto's is about 2.6 million -I suppose that's why people think they're comparable.

And there are similarities. The Great Lakes build/architecture, the lakes themselves, the historic second *cityness* etc.

But they feel very different, notwithstanding they have very different population make-ups. Chicago is a very attractive city, Toronto is attractive in areas -overall though I prefer the *feel* of Toronto. Chicago actually feels like the New York of the Midwest. Toronto, despite all efforts to pigeonhole it and give it a comparative description actually just feels like Toronto. It's way more unique in the Americas than it gets credit for.

Chicago lost over 200,000 people between the 2000 and 2010 census', so the two cities are now pretty much neck and neck population wise. Chicago is very attractive in some areas, not all - much of the South and West sides of the city are incredibly blighted and barren.

The architectural quality and density of downtown skyscrapers aside, IMO Toronto is a far more superior city than Chicago in almost every way that matters to me as a person who appreciates healthy, interesting, stimulating, dynamic and growing urban environments.

 

[Tewder]

Feel free to inform me how the TSB was in any way different from the standard issue high-end setbacks-code inspired stuff seen down south from Yakima to Syracuse. A good example of its type, perhaps, but nothing unusual.

The TSB was built by a Toronto firm, Chapman and Oxley who built many other beloved Toronto buildings/structures including the Toronto Harbour Commission, The Sunnyside Bathing Pavilion, the Palais Royale and the Princess Gate among others. To deny that these buildings make the city better for them is ludicrous, whether you loathe this sort of architectural pastiche or not. I'm not suggesting the TSB is or isn't more important than FCP, only that you should not discount it quite as dismissively as you do.

FCP is one of only three skyscraper designs by Edward Durrell Stone and is the only one to retain its full original detailing. It is an excellent neighbour to the TDC and contributes to what is arguably the greatest urban crossroads in North America--the crossroads of Bay and King.

The facade was a failure and has been replaced, and as to it being an 'excellent' neighbour to the TDC or contributing well at street-level at Bay and King one could argue that the attributes of the TSB may have performed better in both accounts in offering a sharp aesthetic contrast to the TD Centre and in offering a more human scaled mixed-use scheme at street level.

 

[Tewder]

any NYC vs Toronto is completely useless as the are two cities are two leagues apart. Just because they are the biggest cities in their respective country doesn't make them comparable. Like you can't compare Trois-Riviere with Montreal or Sacramento with San Francisco.

Cities that I think are comparable to Toronto: Philadelphia, Boston, Miami etc.

Miami?? You just completely lost credibility.

NYC is a media/arts hub and in a Canadian context Toronto fullfills very much the same role, though on a smaller scale obviously. Chicago is a regional centre only, though a large one, and plays second fiddle to NYC and LA. The media infrastructure there is simply not as central and important as Toronto's.