Toronto/Chicago comparisons

[Red October]

One thing that could be done to improve walkability of the central waterfront is to build more pedestrian bridges like the Amsterdam Bridge between the harbours. A lot of them are disjointed where you have to walk all the way back to Queens Quay every time you want to cross over to the next one. Building pedestrian bridges like that would make it so you could walk straight across as if it is a continuous boardwalk or something.

 

[Bogtrotter]

That is a good point, it is quite the meander at the moment where one is forced to walk along the roadway in stretches. I also agree on your assessment of the Chicago waterfront- love it. It's gorgeous to walk around in the summer. That said, there have been criticisms that it is underused through the winter months, and I don't think Daley's tactics to achieve his vision were altogether above board either. I'm not sure if the ends justifies the means always applies- but in this case it seems to have worked out rather well for Chicago.

 

[nfitz]

I was doing a bit of genealogy ... and looked at the Google Streetview of where my wife's grandfather lived during WWI.

I was really surprised to see more vacant lots where there used to be houses than houses. I know that such inner city decay and abandonment existed in failed cities like Detroit and Buffalo. I hadn't realised that Chicago was in such bad shape. Doesn't seem at all like US cities I'm more familiar with like New York or Seattle.

Are we really comparing these two cities?

 

[gabe]

Chicago has a ghetto, You seemed surprised by that? It's thankfully not in the downtown area, where most tourists are. I did happen to pass by parts it of on the EL. Keep in mind Chicago has over 400 homicides a year!!

 

[Marcanadian]

I just came back from Chicago for the first time and other than geography, I don't see a whole lot of similarities between Chicago and Toronto. Chicago's architecture and downtown is very impressive and grand. Their parks are beautiful and vibrant. Their streets are for the most part well maintained and their sidewalks are large. Toronto has these things as well, but not on such a large scale. But once you venture outside the downtown, it gets really sketchy really fast. There are places I saw in Chicago that were unlike anything I've seen in Canada - people peeing on the streets, whole strips of abandoned stores, and just a lack of life in general. Of course it's not like that everywhere, but I did see some of it. The worst neighbourhood in Toronto in terms of crime would probably be Jane and Finch, and I feel much safer there than I did in some of the places in Chicago. I also went to Gary, Indiana. That was just a depressing place; terrible poverty and urban decay.

I'd be more comfortable comparing NY to Chicago than I would Chicago to Toronto.

 

[steveve]

I just came back from Chicago for the first time and other than geography, I don't see a whole lot of similarities between Chicago and Toronto. Chicago's architecture and downtown is very impressive and grand. Their parks are beautiful and vibrant. Their streets are for the most part well maintained and their sidewalks are large. Toronto has these things as well, but not on such a large scale. But once you venture outside the downtown, it gets really sketchy really fast. There are places I saw in Chicago that were unlike anything I've seen in Canada - people peeing on the streets, whole strips of abandoned stores, and just a lack of life in general. Of course it's not like that everywhere, but I did see some of it. The worst neighbourhood in Toronto in terms of crime would probably be Jane and Finch, and I feel much safer there than I did in some of the places in Chicago. I also went to Gary, Indiana. That was just a depressing place; terrible poverty and urban decay.

I'd be more comfortable comparing NY to Chicago than I would Chicago to Toronto.

great cities have ghettos in their surrounding suburbs... it's what makes them great!... lol!... but no, it doesn't make them great, just badass and cool.. Toronto is pretty soft when it comes to that (which is why we can't really be taken seriously), but it's definitely safer.

 

[nfitz]

Chicago has a ghetto, You seemed surprised by that?

Sure, I know that like many US cities, Chicago has huge crime and poverty problems. And bad parts of town ... it's the only place I've been that people have warned me about actually not even taking the El through certain neighbourhoods.

But I hadn't realised that real estate situation was so dreadful that swaths of urban land near downtown were only sparsely populated. That's what astounds me. I hadn't realised Chicago had regressed so much, and become so backwards.

Maybe it would have been a good comparison to Toronto if it had not collapsed so ... but it hardly seems comparable these days, with land here such a commodity. It's hard to imagine a lot in a residential area staying vacant here for long, unless someone has some strange ideas about not doing anything with it ... let alone great chunks of the city.

 

[gabe]

I also went to Gary, Indiana. That was just a depressing place; terrible poverty and urban decay.

Yes unfortunately that decay spills over into Chicago. I've seen people pee in streets in Toronto (usually Saturday nights) complete with puddles of ectoplasm

 

[kkgg7]

I just came back from Chicago for the first time and other than geography, I don't see a whole lot of similarities between Chicago and Toronto.
I'd be more comfortable comparing NY to Chicago than I would Chicago to Toronto.

That's exactly right. Before I came to Toronto, I thought it was some sort of Canadian version of Chicago, but a couple of weeks later after living here, I found very little similarities except both sit on a lake and both have a population of 2.5-3 million.

i don't understand all the comparing between these two cities. I tried very hard to draw the similarities, but if someone stayed in both cities for at least two days, he will find them on totally different scale. Chicago is a city of skyscrapers/architectural beauty, not so much for Toronto, which is probably a couple of decades behind in terms of infrastructure and urban planning. Despite the lower crime rate etc, I think Toronto is not where Chicago was 15 years ago, yet. I might hurt some people's feelings and pride, but that's just an objective observation from a complete outsider who is neither American nor Canadian.

 

[nfitz]

Chicago is a city of skyscrapers/architectural beauty ...

A city is not just the small part of it downtown. It's a sum of all it's parts. What about the acres of Chicago that consist of boarded up residential buildings and vacant lots? It seems to me Chicago is suffering from some poor planning decisions that have allowed it's exurbs to expand in a way that isn't sustainable to it's urban population.

 

[taal]

I would be rather ashamed if the only thing Toronto has over Chicago is the fact that it doesn't have large sections of boarded up houses / high crime rates right outside the core in some isolated areas.

And I don't believe that's the case - in my comparison, where Toronto stands out are our vibrant streets, Queen W / Bloor W / .... while Chicago has some areas that are similar there's so much more variety here. Variety is the key word here.

Now having said that I think, I think anyone would be hard pressed not to get a feeling of grander / class / richness ? / in Chicago that you really can't in Toronto. And no this is not because we're a younger city. It's the architectural marvelous they have throughout downtown, along with some amazingly well maintained and elegant streets. We just don't do that here.

At the same time, in terms of modern architecture, you'll find a lot of interesting things in condos throughout the greater core, which we have so many more of then Chicago.


I guess the one thing I'd point out is I don't think Toronto will feel too much different in 20 years - less maybe a very developed waterfront. But this waterfront will be very different from Chicago, more of a neighborhood Toronto sytle.

So those arguing Toronto will be like Chicago in X# of years, I don't think that'll happen.

 

[kkgg7]

A city is not just the small part of it downtown. It's a sum of all it's parts. What about the acres of Chicago that consist of boarded up residential buildings and vacant lots? It seems to me Chicago is suffering from some poor planning decisions that have allowed it's exurbs to expand in a way that isn't sustainable to it's urban population.

True. A city is not just its downtown, however, downtown is probably the most important part of a city. I live in downtown Toronto, and even in the very core, there are vacant lots almost everywhere (eg: Queen/Church, Queen/St Patrick, Dundas East, Bloor/Church just to name a few). Outside the city core, do I even need to name them? Apparently vacant lots are not just Chicago's problem. Speaking of poor planning, Toronto didn't exactly go a decent job either, did it? It is a mid size city yet the extent of sprawl is already frustrating. The lack of highways and efficient public transit makes its gridlock the worst on the continent. Many of its city streets are in horrible third-world-like condition which you can't even believe are in the most wealthy city of a G7 country. Queen West, for some odd reason many locals seem to be proud of, are in terrible shape. I don't know why Toronto's retails have to be crammed into 100 year dilapidated two story houses (I am sure many will claim it is a "character" but for me it looks poor) It is hard to believe that's the main commercial street in the city. Yonge st is basically a tacky looking mess. Do I even need to comment on Dundas East And Dundas West?

Toronto may not have many slums, thanks for Canada's smaller income gap. however, honestly there are very few presentable streets that I can proudly show my visiting friends (no, not Queen West, too shabby looking indeed).

We may criticize Chicago's urban issues all we want, however, its urban planning and architectural glamour is still a couple of notches above ours. When do you think Toronto will have eight subway lines serving both international airports? To refuse to admit Chicago's huge advantage over Toronto at least for now and keep talking about "footprints", "neighbourhoods" and "Kensington Market" as if they don't exist anywhere else in the world is ridiculous.

 

[old boy]

kkgg7, sounds like you're being " held " in Toronto against your will.

 

[TheWrightStuff]

The only part of Toronto that IMO resembles Chicago is Bay Street south of City Hall, which has somewhat the feel of LaSalle Street facing the Board of Trade Building: large-scale Miesian and Beaux-Arts buildings that fill their blocks ending in an architecturally robust terminus. And even there the scale is much reduced.

 

[steveve]

The only part of Toronto that IMO resembles Chicago is Bay Street south of City Hall, which has somewhat the feel of LaSalle Street facing the Board of Trade Building: large-scale Miesian and Beaux-Arts buildings that fill their blocks ending in an architecturally robust terminus. And even there the scale is much reduced.

a great movie showcasing the scale and beauty of Chicago is Transformers 3... So awesome, and i actually happened to see them filming it in summer 2010... A great movie showcasing Toronto is.... wait... i can't think of one.... (Scott Pilgrim sorta counts, but only shows fractions of the city)