Toronto Casa III Condos | 179.52m | 55s | Cresford | a—A

[travis3000]

Another 200m building lost what's with all these height downgrades ?

 

[Ramako]

Another 200m building lost what's with all these height downgrades ?

From page 15:

The policy identifies the area around the intersection of Yonge and Bloor as a ”height peak” where the tallest buildings would be located. The tallest approved building at Yonge Street and Bloor Street is at 78-storeys. The area adjacent to this height peak is identified as a “height ridge” with building heights gradually descend away from the Yonge Bloor intersection along the height ridge. The site is located in the height ridge, immediately east of the height peak. The proposed height of 55-storeys is less than the 56-story height of the CASA 2 building and maintains the intent of the area policies within the “height ridge”.

 

[taal]

Wow you're right a lot of office space ... supringing given the location really ..

 

[isaidso]

From page 15:

What a stupid policy. I don't like to use that term, but that's precisely what it is. Stupid. The whole core from Davenport to the lake shore is going to be tall eventually. Do they not realize that? Imposing areas that will be peaks and force gradually descending heights as one moves away from it? This is bureaucracy gone mad. They're trying to regulate things that don't need regulating.

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

I don't agree with the City's rationale on this one. One thing to consider is that it is still a market, which means for every floor that is removed from one building, it will be added to another.

Removing floors in one location leads to taller building elsewhere, or more buildings elsewhere. Toronto can't escape this, and we need to think carefully about shortening towers, because it will impact other areas.

 

[interchange42]

Right, and proposals in those other areas will all be subject to the same approvals process too. I'm not sure what the issue is.

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[Waterloo_Guy]

Right, and proposals in those other areas will all be subject to the same approvals process too. I'm not sure what the issue is.

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The issue is sprawl and limited space. Building tall reduces sprawl. It might make sense to limit heights along St Clair West, but it comes at a cost. The city needs to accommodate a growing population.

 

[interchange42]

There is a huge inventory of land in this city to accommodate new population, the largest block of which is in the Port Lands, but it's also spread out across the city in wasted space in 60s-70s-80s tower-in-the-park style apartment complexes, it's along the Avenues where there are now 2-storey buildings and the City wants 8 storeys, it's in former industrial lots along the railways where redevelopment will bring new housing along with white collar jobspace, etc.

We are nowhere near a point where you can push down on one building and see the demand pop up in another identifiable spot, and it will take many decades to get to the point where that's true if ever.

Every building will still be evaluated against a set of criteria that the Planning Department sets out. The criteria change a little bit from time to time, but they are written so as to make the buildings work well within the neighbourhood context, one which will be invariably changed a bit by the building itself. There is consideration given to the province's Places To Grow act—that's why building proposals are so much taller now than they were just a handful of years ago—but there's no real worry about the supposed damage that will be done to some other area of town by—in this case—the lopping off of five floors of a proposal on Charles Street.

Remember the Ford twins' early crazy proposal to build a giant mall with ferris wheel in the Port Lands? They eventually let that go when Waterfront Toronto agreed to "speed up development of the Port Lands". That was all bluster on the part of WT because the truth is that the market will take care of the Port Lands. While plans are being made for that area, there is no development down there yet and there won't be for a while either; demand has not crept that far east yet, and when it does in the next half-dozen years or so, you'll find that the Port Lands will take between 3 and 5 decades to build out as they are that big.

The way to keep the lid on sprawl is to keep the Greenbelt intact. The Regressive Conservatives would be disassembling it now had they won a majority, but as we have avoided that nightmare scenario, we just have to be on the lookout for developers and 905 municipalities looking to thwart it in ways.

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[Waterloo_Guy]

There is a huge inventory of land in this city to accommodate new population, the largest block of which is in the Port Lands, but it's also spread out across the city in wasted space in 60s-70s-80s tower-in-the-park style apartment complexes, it's along the Avenues where there are now 2-storey buildings and the City wants 8 storeys, it's in former industrial lots along the railways where redevelopment will bring new housing along with white collar jobspace, etc.

We are nowhere near a point where you can push down on one building and see the demand pop up in another identifiable spot, and it will take many decades to get to the point where that's true if ever.

Every building will still be evaluated against a set of criteria that the Planning Department sets out. The criteria change a little bit from time to time, but they are written so as to make the buildings work well within the neighbourhood context, one which will be invariably changed a bit by the building itself. There is consideration given to the province's Places To Grow act—that's why building proposals are so much taller now than they were just a handful of years ago—but there's no real worry about the supposed damage that will be done to some other area of town by—in this case—the lopping off of five floors of a proposal on Charles Street.

Remember the Ford twins' early crazy proposal to build a giant mall with ferris wheel in the Port Lands? They eventually let that go when Waterfront Toronto agreed to "speed up development of the Port Lands". That was all bluster on the part of WT because the truth is that the market will take care of the Port Lands. While plans are being made for that area, there is no development down there yet and there won't be for a while either; demand has not crept that far east yet, and when it does in the next half-dozen years or so, you'll find that the Port Lands will take between 3 and 5 decades to build out as they are that big.

The way to keep the lid on sprawl is to keep the Greenbelt intact. The Regressive Conservatives would be disassembling it now had they won a majority, but as we have avoided that nightmare scenario, we just have to be on the lookout for developers and 905 municipalities looking to thwart it in ways.

42

I accept your argument. You've convinced me that I overreacted on the density issue. I'll admit that I wasn't aware that the Portlands were that big. I know over all they are huge, but my understanding was that they only want to develop the south-west part.

I agree with you on the Greenbelt.

 

[interchange42]

It's always a topic worth engaging in. There are so many variables to consider with development that it can be tough to grasp them all or summarize them adequately.

I don't bring up the following for the point of continuing to hammer away, but for anyone reading it's worth getting a better grasp of just how much land there is to (re)develop east of Downtown before we even get to the Port Lands.

So yes, the first chunk of the Port Lands—just south of the current mouth of the Don—are in detailed concept planning now. So as I said, even before we get there, there is all of this which is in various stages:

- Bayside (Great Gulf, Hines/Tridel and others)
- Lower Yonge Precinct (Pinnacle and others)
- West Don Lands (DundeeKilmer)
- Corktown (UrbanCapital, Great Gulf and others)
- Old Town of York (Pemberton, Cityzen, several others)
- Distillery (Cityscape & Dundee)
- Lower Don Lands (3C)
- Riverside Square (Streetcar)
- Lever Site (First Gulf/Great Gulf)

Without more infill development and more brownfield redevelopment in those areas, the city won't even feel like it reaches the Port Lands yet. The Port Lands will also be dependent on getting LRT service. The first branch of that has just been built down Cherry Street, ending just north of the rail corridor. That will likely first be connected to a new Queens Quay East LRT which the Libs have promised to move up Metrolinx's priority list. That line would serve the Lower Yonge Precinct, Bayside, and the Lower Don Lands. An extension from there would get to the Port Lands. How many years before 1) the funding is found to build Queens Quay East LRT and 2) the areas it serves are built out? Minimum one decade, probably two? Will the City/Province have the funds to push the LRT into the Port Lands before there's really a market for housing down there? I doubt it, as people (like me) will be pushing for transit expansion funding to be spent on RERing the GO system and building the Relief Line first.

There's far more coming up for redevelopment east of Downtown then just what I have outlined above, but enough derailing this thread for now. Makes me think there should be a thread just on understanding the scope of Toronto's (re)developable land.

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[ThomasJ]

Wow you're right a lot of office space ... supringing given the location really ..

no. there's pent-up demand for office space in the yonge bloor node. this will only increase as the residential towers under construction deliver.

 

[androiduk]

Helen Thomson Travel has vacated this building on Hayden.

 

[julesomar]

excuse me, noob here, but what happens with the parking?

If I understand the approval correctly, the proposed parking is less than what is required per some set ratios.

 

[interchange42]

Most condos are being allowed to be built with fewer spaces than prescribed per the city's outdated formula for calculating how many will be necessary. Developers have found that over the last several years fewer people are buying parking spaces.

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[androiduk]

House gone, post office next.