Toronto, Capital of North America?

[RC8]

RC8 asks,

Yes I did but I will refrain in the future as I am clearly not worthy. You have made it crystal clear that you are living such a righteous life that I couldn't possibly aspire to match.

Smugness, thy name is RC8.

So you didn't read them, then. Funny how little it takes for some people to turn all defensive.

I for one haven't judged a single poster beyond saying that driving is not a necessity, that it is in fact not being favoured in many places, and that people shouldn't expect to not pay the costs of unnecessary lifestyles.

There will always be people who use more resources than others, and so long as they are also the ones who contribute the most to society via extra taxes then that's OK. But the real problem in Toronto and 'urban' Ontario isn't that people in Oakville and the Kingsway are driving, but rather that people in North York, Scarborough, and Northern Etobicoke feel that the money collected from residential and commercial high-earners should be spent subsidising their ability to live a similarly wasteful lifestyle.

Government money should be used to provide citizens with efficient healthcare, a clean accessible environment, and efficient transportation. Some people, mostly conservatives, apparently don't care about efficiency.

 

[CN Tower]

, and that people shouldn't expect to not pay the costs of unnecessary lifestyles.

Unnecessary lifestyles?! According to whom?

You're calling people conservatives because they favour automobiles for comfort/safety/convenience yet your comments ironically smack of fascist edicts!

Thou shall not consume that which I, singularly, deem unnecessary.

Thus spoke RC8.

Well, chill out Musilini. I'm off to soak my knees in the wasteful hot tub for which i pay enormous heating bills and HST.

I trust you enjoyed the dinner you grew in your backyard. Anything in excess of urban farming would be no unnecessary....and wasteful!

 

[neubilder]

Tell us CN Tower, how do you consume 4x as much energy and resources as the average Canadian household? And why are you so brazen about it?

 

[gristle]

But the real problem in Toronto and 'urban' Ontario isn't that people in Oakville and the Kingsway are driving, but rather that people in North York, Scarborough, and Northern Etobicoke feel that the money collected from residential and commercial high-earners should be spent subsidising their ability to live a similarly wasteful lifestyle.

So which is it: the taxes being paid, the environmental issues from driving, or those you condemn for expecting to have their lifestyles subsidized (so you claim)? It's not clear what you are trying to say here.

Government money should be used to provide citizens with efficient healthcare, a clean accessible environment, and efficient transportation. Some people, mostly conservatives, apparently don't care about efficiency.

Again, this is a political view - not that there is anything wrong with that. Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say that government should provide citizens with an "accessible environment"? Do you mean transportation, or something else?

 

[neubilder]

So which is it: the taxes being paid, the environmental issues from driving, or those you condemn for expecting to have their lifestyles subsidized (so you claim)? It's not clear what you are trying to say here.

If I may.
Both. You can't regulate activities, you can only charge taxes. Those funds can be used to pay for things like transit, or parks, etc. (At least once we rid ourselves of the Fords) Wasteful excess is taxed and offsets the cost of basic quality-of-life infrastructure. You can't regulate activities but you can at least offset the damage. Like a carbon tax.

Again, this is a political view - not that there is anything wrong with that. Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say that government should provide citizens with an "accessible environment"? Do you mean transportation, or something else?

I will presume that he or she means accessible parks, accessible transportation networks, healthcare etc.. ie. not requiring an automobile or fees. Or to have access to these services free of obstruction, in a safe and comfortable manner.

Gristle, why are you nitpicking here?

 

[RC8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Seriously, what the hell is your problem? You are stating that people should be expecting to not pay the costs of unnecessary lifestyle choices. How the **** does that make any sense? Are you trolling?

If you honestly think that driving is a necessity that the government should be helping you out with, you are completely disconnected from the world you inhabit.

(for farmers and professionals who need to drive as part of their job it's a different matter)

Can you not see the difference between paying to use a hot tub and not paying the full price of gas to drive?

 

[neubilder]

(for farmers and professionals who need to drive as part of their job it's a different matter)

Even in these cases driving is the cost of doing business along with the respective taxes.

 

[RC8]

So which is it: the taxes being paid, the environmental issues from driving, or those you condemn for expecting to have their lifestyles subsidized (so you claim)? It's not clear what you are trying to say here.

Again, this is a political view - not that there is anything wrong with that. Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say that government should provide citizens with an "accessible environment"? Do you mean transportation, or something else?

Neubilder is right on both accounts.

The only thing that's important to add is that often taxes and regulations aren't that much of an optional thing, they are tools used to internalise costs that markets can't account for. For example, if you have a factory that dumps waste into rivers and pollutes the air, this factory is causing people to fall sick at greater rates than if it did not exist. The existence of the factory leads to increased healthcare costs from the province, so by charging a tax on the pollution generated by the factory the province can both invite the factory to look at alternative ways of producing its product, or fund the treatment for the illnesses that it creates.

Without such taxes the costs are unfairly passed on to governments and citizens that may not even be purchasing that factory's products.

Similarly, if a corporation is producing something with too much packaging eventually the government and citizens like you and I are stuck with the bill to dispose of this waste, while the corporation that produced it doesn't pay more than anyone else. A packaging tax would address this issue.

By accessible environments, I mean a combination of transportation and urban planning that ensures that kids, seniors, and everything in between can benefit from our built environment equally while spending a minimum amount of money.

 

[RC8]

Even in these cases driving is the cost of doing business along with the respective taxes.

I agree with you, but producing food within driving distance from where it is consumed should also be high on our priorities. Otherwise it could be cheaper to, say, produce the food in Venezuela (where oil is cheaper than water and labour costs are very low) and send it on a jet plane to Toronto - which would ultimately be more detrimental for both the local economy and the global environment. Fresh local food also tends to be healthier, and should be protected in my opinion.

 

[neubilder]

True a good infrastructure to get local food to market (and a good market infrastructure - not loblaws) is important.

 

[Thanos]

So what does all this talk have to do with "Toronto, Capital of North America"?

 

[Lenser]

Hmmmm.... zero?

 

[neubilder]

So what does all this talk have to do with "Toronto, Capital of North America"?

Hmmmm.... zero?

I disagree.

A great city must have a semblance of comprehension for the idea of common good. Sadly, CN Tower's comment "I use probably 3x or 4x. (the energy of the average Canadian household). My choice. Great country isn't it?" represents Toronto all too well. The right to brandish ones ability to consume wastefully is not a hallmark of a great city. Toronto is a city where the right of the individual to act selfishly reigns supreme. This plays out in so many ways; the development industry, destruction of heritage, good urban design/planning being quashed by business interests, underfunded and marginalized arts, the dominance of the Weston food empire, and the fact that someone like Rob Ford was able to get elected.

Culturally, (and I don't mean in terms of cultural diversity) Montreal makes Toronto look like a redneck backwater.

 

[CN Tower]

The right to brandish ones ability to consume wastefully is not a hallmark of a great city.

Wasteful according to whom?

This plays out in so many ways; the development industry, destruction of heritage, good urban design/planning being quashed by business interests, underfunded and marginalized arts, the dominance of the Weston food empire, and the fact that someone like Rob Ford was able to get elected.

Keep going man. I'll pass you some more rope with which to hang yourself.

Your herculean leap from energy hog to destroyer of heritage, arts slayer, grocery warlord and Rob Ford devotee just wreaks of self-righteous ignorance. Please continue. You erode your credibility further with every post. Yes- I consume a lot of energy in my household. I can hear the eco-police cars rounding my corner right about now. I better flee the scene! Oh wait...I can't use my car! Maybe I can outrun them on my son's emission-free scooter!

I assume that as a neubilder you intend to preserve and reuse every last scrap of material from every structure that you demolish for your 'neu bild'. Is that right? Or are you just a hypocrite?

 

[Thanos]

I disagree.

A great city must have a semblance of comprehension for the idea of common good. Sadly, CN Tower's comment "I use probably 3x or 4x. (the energy of the average Canadian household). My choice. Great country isn't it?" represents Toronto all too well. The right to brandish ones ability to consume wastefully is not a hallmark of a great city. Toronto is a city where the right of the individual to act selfishly reigns supreme. This plays out in so many ways; the development industry, destruction of heritage, good urban design/planning being quashed by business interests, underfunded and marginalized arts, the dominance of the Weston food empire, and the fact that someone like Rob Ford was able to get elected.

As opposed to any other city? Have you not been following US politics the past decade. How do you think the US or Europe got into the financial mess they are in. The whole "i have the right to do whatever i want because i can" exists everywhere.

Culturally, (and I don't mean in terms of cultural diversity) Montreal makes Toronto look like a redneck backwater.

Please clarify. As someone who grew up there i see very little difference in the mentality of the two.