News   Apr 26, 2024
 2.1K     4 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 457     0 
News   Apr 26, 2024
 1K     1 

Toronto/Boston comparisons

Agreed, and in the sense you describe Boston feels very much like Montreal to me. A once very important place that has been eclipsed by other cities yet hasn't lost its own sense of self and importance... this to me is very 'charming'.

It could be argued that Boston's proximity to Harvard and MIT and its significance as a research center has kept it "very important" and just "highly specialized."

One thing I noticed of Boston was a lack of the slightly seedy element in Montreal (which, to be fair, is part of that city's louche charm).
 
I thought Boston was a great city with interesting street vibe (in select areas) and historic architecture. Excellent sporting tradition that we can't compare to. It is always difficult (or useless) to compare cities but even to the extent that you can, Toronto-Boston doesn't work. They play different roles.

It might be a function of its geography or political boundaries, but Boston felt very small to me. We walked across the city in no time flat. We ran out of places to go in Boston proper. It didn't feel as 'full' as Toronto does. Sure, people were out and about in the popular spots - around Fenway, Faneuil market, etc - but otherwise it felt empty, a little sleepy. Less everyday life going on than it feels is happening in Toronto. And the outer regions were a complete yawn. Cape Cod is cool but Plymouth had almost nothing. Cambridge was boring. There are the Berkshires but they're pretty far. I'm not saying that Toronto's burbs are a bucket of monkeys but Boston's were a snooze.

As a tourist, if I were going to spend a long weekend in either city I'd choose Boston hands-down; if I were going to spent a week I'd likely choose Toronto.
 
Last edited:
Yes, and I just don't understand how anybody would complain about Boston's surroundings. There are so many lovely little places, and of course the ocean (Cape Ann and Maine)... good god, what more could you want???
 
^Yeah, when it comes to day trips, Boston has Toronto beat. It is what one might expect of a region with a 400 year history along a unique coastline with mountains in the distance.

Then again, Toronto beats Chicago for day trips. Apart from inner suburbs like Evanston and Oak Park, I don't even know where I'd go within a 2 hour drive of Chicago other than Milwaukee.
 
I know Boston reasonably well and am a big fan. It's beautiful, historic, walkable, and full of smart people. Not much to dislike and fabulous to visit.

I agree with the assessments here, however, that it is not really in the same league as Toronto for comparison, even if its overall (metro) population is not so much smaller. Boston is a regional centre, with the important exception of its stellar universities, and most importantly has been playing second banana to New York even within its (broader) region for about 150 years. So much of the energy on the East Coast of the US is sucked in by the Big Apple.

I would hesitate even to compare Boston to Montreal, which to me feels like a bigger, more vibrant place, much more connected to the outside thanks to its links with the Francophonie. In addition to being Canada's second city, we often forget that Montreal is effectively the second city of the French-speaking world, with all that that implies, and it makes for a very interesting cultural mix that's nothing like Boston's relative provincialism.

All that said, Boston has one important quality I desperately wish Toronto possessed. I'm tempted to call it self-respect. Perhaps pride is a better word. In downtown Boston you do *not* see the kind of shambolic public spaces and streetscapes we are so inured to in T-O, and that's because the locals would never tolerate them. Bostonians take great pride in their surroundings and their history and it shows. I know Toronto is a young city, and this kind of metropolitan respect for the public realm takes time to develop, but I wish we could learn it from places like Boston more quickly while retaining all of our own city's many great attributes.
 
I should think that would happen as a matter of course. How could it not?

Yes indeed ... although, as you know, we've actually had some lively discussions in the past that question whether or not design cultures in large urban centres ( Toronto, specifically ) even express the uniqueness of those cultures in the local architecture at all! What I was getting at was the degree to which Boston or Chicago's local architects are remaking their skyline - compared to the dramatic changes that local firms are having here.
 
I think the answer in Boston's case is 'not much.' There's just very little physical scope for renewal in a city that's already so built out. I could count the number of major construction projects I saw underway on my last visit on about half of one hand.

More importantly, I think Boston shares with San Francisco a certain small-c conservatism in matters of design, born of an understandable reluctance to mar what are very attractive historic aesthetics. This is one way in which Toronto's famous lack of a cohesive style or identity can be a great boon; we take for granted just how open we are to experimentation.
 
Some might question your notion that we lack a cohesive style, given how often some forum members complain whenever "another glass box" goes up ( and some of us celebrate this cohesiveness! ), but I get your point. There's a Bostom website for a group called pinkcommagallery, where I noticed this reference to their city:

For all the city’s stodginess, Boston’s six architecture schools and their instructors have unleashed some of the most provocative figures on the world scene. Why hasn’t this culture permeated the city’s own architectural sense of itself?

http://www.pinkcomma.com/
 
More importantly, I think Boston shares with San Francisco a certain small-c conservatism in matters of design, born of an understandable reluctance to mar what are very attractive historic aesthetics.

Not in the 60s: remember Boston City Hall...
 
In general I agree with much of LM's assessment, and it was pretty much how I felt when I first moved down here. But beyond the similarities in urban fabric or the stats, at several levels Boston is still very different from Toronto - while it has a roughly comparable metro area and pop as Toronto, it has a much denser core (Boston, Brookline, Cambridge, Somerville) but much less dense suburbs/exurbs. It has a fairly cosmopolitan population (by American standards) thanks to its large number of students and researchers, yet most of those are relatively transient populations that usually don't stay for much longer than 5 years. Boston is both smaller (size, multiculturalism, importance as a financial centre) and bigger (history, impact on the world's politics and sci-tech) than Toronto.

In downtown Boston you do *not* see the kind of shambolic public spaces and streetscapes we are so inured to in T-O, and that's because the locals would never tolerate them.
While Boston does have a penchant for brick pavements that usually look "nice", and they generally don't tend to tear up pavements and just patch back over with asphalt, there are a lot of places with bricks gone missing or broken and never get replaced. There are also a dismayingly large number of dead planters and trees. Sure, Boston doesn't have utility poles in the core, but that's one relatively minor thing, in my opinion. There're still plenty of posters and graffiti, not in the main tourist areas or prime residential neighbourhoods, but certainly in the more bohemian areas just outside.

I think the answer in Boston's case is 'not much.' There's just very little physical scope for renewal in a city that's already so built out. I could count the number of major construction projects I saw underway on my last visit on about half of one hand.

More importantly, I think Boston shares with San Francisco a certain small-c conservatism in matters of design, born of an understandable reluctance to mar what are very attractive historic aesthetics. This is one way in which Toronto's famous lack of a cohesive style or identity can be a great boon; we take for granted just how open we are to experimentation.
As adma pointed out, Boston certainly had a rather sombre history of tearing up entire historic neighbourhoods (Scollay Square, West End) in the name of urban renewal, but that is in the past.

In terms of current construction project, the recession did hit pretty hard, but barring any major catastrophes a good number are actually restarting / will restart in the next half a year or so. There are actually several large swathes of the city at the outer edge of "downtown" that are currently / soon undergoing major renewal: Fenway (used to be a sea of parking lots and auto shops, has seen two projects in the last decade, with 2-3 more starting soon and more in the plans); NorthPoint (huge development across the river from downtown, former railyards, a couple of buildings completed but stalled for a few years, relaunched a couple weeks ago); South Boston Waterfront (former portlands, by far the largest carte blanche that will be filled out over decades, several buildings completed and a couple more just started construction); lots reclaimed with the Big Dig (a couple completed, another 2-3 just started construction, but two of the biggest ones, replacing current parking garages, are mired in design/regulatory quagmire). Then there are the air-rights parcels above the Mass Turnpike scar cutting through the city: one high-profile dev died a painful death, after construction started, due to financial and legal issues and corruption charges, etc, and another one just starting but also being sued for various reasons; but a package of parcels in Back Bay is now kicking into action, and densification of some already-built parcels are also moving forward. Various lots in downtown that stalled in the last few years (similar situation as 1BE) have just resumed, except for one prominent one right in the heart of downtown that is still literally a hole in the ground. And of course there are all the universities, colleges, museums etc, which have mostly gone ahead with new construction unabated throughout the recession.

Bottomline is, Boston is still very much changing and developing, though unlike Toronto's highrise boom, the majority of new developments, including most of the ones mentioned above, are midrise (10-15 stories), both to conform to the city's existing built form, and to avoid confrontation with powerful NIMBY groups that cry bloody hell over shadows (a favourite tactic, so much so that the state legislature is currently considering legislation that wants to bar any new development from casting a shadow, at any time of the day/year, on Boston's main parks/squares).
 
Last edited:
More importantly, I think Boston shares with San Francisco a certain small-c conservatism in matters of design, born of an understandable reluctance to mar what are very attractive historic aesthetics. This is one way in which Toronto's famous lack of a cohesive style or identity can be a great boon; we take for granted just how open we are to experimentation.

Conservatism is always an issue in the presence of such a strong heritage imperative, and all the more so when one has been established so early as with Boston and its Bulfinch/Spirit-of-America aesthetic and mythology... and it is about a mythology really, isn't it? Outside of certain neighbourhoods and beyond certain individual historic sites what really stops Boston from reinterpreting itself in design and architecture if it isn't for the somewhat self-imposed confines of this overwhelmingly compelling image of itself? As Adma points out there have been attempts at this, some more successful/popular than others, but in the end the mythology of place is just so entrenched... and I'm not suggesting this is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, who wants Boston to change (too much)?

... we've actually had some lively discussions in the past that question whether or not design cultures in large urban centres ( Toronto, specifically ) even express the uniqueness of those cultures in the local architecture at all! What I was getting at was the degree to which Boston or Chicago's local architects are remaking their skyline - compared to the dramatic changes that local firms are having here.


The pre-existing contexts of Toronto, Chicago and Boston are very different. As we know the fire provided Chicago with a sort of carte blanche scenario that facilitated a mandate to reinvent itself, resulting in a wonderful lack of cohesion in design, where what does bring it all together - cohesively - is a standard of excellence and monumentality...

In Toronto the situation is a bit of a grey and oft-times confusing middle ground between the two extremes of Boston and Chicago. In the absence of a compelling mythology of place heritage resources have often been compromised or lost to other stronger forces, the victim of a much larger collective desire in the city to deny the past and reinvent itself anew, as it did in the post-war era. Now, the multiple forces at play in Toronto compete and undermine in a rather schizophrenic way: is Toronto a modern highrise city or predominantly a heritage lowrise one; a boxy conservative city or a cutting-edge trendy one; a cheap and messy boom town or an new urban showcase... the contradictions in Toronto are many which make it very difficult to clearly identify any sort of objective cohesion without digging to depths that make little sense and thereby lack traction.
 
But why restrict the reinvention to the post-war era? If one set aside romantic notions of pre-war Toronto, it's pretty clear that Toronto has ALWAYS been reinventing itself as part of the growth process. The only constant is commerce.

re: Boston - I do find Bostonians rather reserved in a very Toronto sort-of way; in fact I would go further and say that it borders on being unfriendly - esp. if you are vis-min.

AoD
 
Last edited:
It's true that a Victorian city replaced a Georgian one... although I'm not sure that the underlaying mythology changed that much in that both were rooted strongly in colony and Empire. In this sense the Second World War truly is a turning point.
 

Back
Top