TOareaFan
Superstar
or the free shuttle from just outside Union....I know the 509 is also free if you are coming off the subway but it does not go right into the airport .....either one works.
Toronto Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport | ?m | ?s | Ports Toronto | Arup
or the free shuttle from just outside Union....I know the 509 is also free if you are coming off the subway but it does not go right into the airport .....either one works.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
Admiral Beez does have a good point.
- The new pedestrian tunnel eliminates the wait for the ferry.
- UPX directly drops you right into the terminal with no outdoor walking (unlike for 509) and easy transfer to the Terminal 1/3 people mover.
- During peak period, the Porter shuttle can be slower than the UPX, and involves an outdoor wait (UPX is an indoor wait).
- Future GO RER and SmartTrack services may change the TCA/Pearson convenience balance, especially if a Riverdale resident now becomes able to hop onto a train at Gerrard Square in Riverdale area.
- The new pedestrian tunnel eliminates the wait for the ferry.
- UPX directly drops you right into the terminal with no outdoor walking (unlike for 509) and easy transfer to the Terminal 1/3 people mover.
- During peak period, the Porter shuttle can be slower than the UPX, and involves an outdoor wait (UPX is an indoor wait).
- Future GO RER and SmartTrack services may change the TCA/Pearson convenience balance, especially if a Riverdale resident now becomes able to hop onto a train at Gerrard Square in Riverdale area.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
To be honest, I've never though of that. I always either cab it or drive and park when I fly Porter.
nfitz
Superstar
509 goes to within 200 metres of the airport entrance building - about the length of a subway platform. It's about 400 metres from the subway at Bay/Yonge to the shuttle pickup spot - in front of the Starbucks on Front Street between York and Simcoe. Less walking to take the 509 - particularly if you arrive at Union subway from the University line ... you just walk a few steps over!
ksun
Senior Member
such discussion is based on the assumption the flight from YYZ is also to a handful of cities nearby.
In the majority of the cases (95%), the two don't compete because Porter doesn't fly to most destinations in the world.
The original question was about the time it takes to get to the airport, nothing to do with destinations or cost, so that doesn't factor into the decision. The point is that coming from where he is coming from, he can still get to the Island Airport quicker than to Pearson, based on his scenario of taking the streetcar to Union.
ksun
Senior Member
it is certainly faster to get to YTz than YYZ for someone living downtown, there is no question about it.
It is a 30 minutes WALK from union to YTZ and there is no chance getting to Pearson can be faster. You need to wait for the UPE to arrive, as well as to walk in the massive airport to check in luggage and get to the gate (sometimes it is quite far). I don't know the point of even comparing.
dowlingm
Senior Member
In a different city, with different politicians, we might have a 511-509 hybrid Bathurst-Eireann Quay Loop-Union route for a small fraction of what UPX cost.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Last Wednesday, 3:30pm Porter flight to Montreal, 21 people onboard. Thursday, 7:10pm flight to Toronto, about 30 people onboard. Meanwhile the Air Canada flights to/from Billy Bishop were full. How is Porter making money? Great service though, definitely my favourite Canadian airline.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think if they are making money it is because, on average, what you experienced in your two flights last week is atypical and their load factor across all flights and all routes is higher than what you saw (whch looks to be around 1/3 full).
The only (that I know of) published load factors was in their IPO which they pulled off the market. At that time (2010) they reported that their 2009 fiscal year showed a load factor of around 50% (think it was a couple of points below that but +/-)
Sir Novelty Fashion
Senior Member
Anecdotally, I fly Porter at least twice a month to places as different as New York City and Sault Ste. Marie. Been a while since I've been on one that wasn't packed full.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
By definition, a plane that is full has more people on it than an empty one, so there will be more anecdotal evidence of the former. 
The attempted IPO indicated that Porter wasn't profitable, but since then there's been no real evidence. Porter itself has a strong incentive to project a picture of good health...
The attempted IPO indicated that Porter wasn't profitable, but since then there's been no real evidence. Porter itself has a strong incentive to project a picture of good health...
TORealtyBlog
Active Member
Porter is a great airline, I'm surprised they're not making enough money.
TOareaFan
Superstar
By definition, a plane that is full has more people on it than an empty one, so there will be more anecdotal evidence of the former.
The attempted IPO indicated that Porter wasn't profitable, but since then there's been no real evidence. Porter itself has a strong incentive to project a picture of good health...
i have no idea if Porter is making money......but i do know there are multiple reasons why a company would not proceed with, or contemplate, a public offering......particularly an offering which had not yet gone to market.
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
I would be surprised if this wasn't covered earlier in the thread! They tried twice (in 2010 and 2011) but suspended plans both times due to "market conditions". That is code for "our investment bankers couldn't find enough people to buy into this turd of a deal at the price we want".
The 2010 prospectus is here: http://www.nojetsto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Porter_Airlines_IPO_Prospectus_2010-05-21.pdf
You can see that Porter lost money every single year that they were in operation. Maybe things have changed since then, but Porter doesn't have to make it's books public so we can't know either way. Maybe they just don't need the money any more, particularly given the terminal sale.