Toronto Bay Adelaide Centre | 217.92m | 51s | Brookfield | KPMB

CITY_LOVER said:
Well, I'm very happy to hear that the downtown Toronto office market is strong and I hope over the next decade most of the 9 million square feet potential actually materializes. I'm hoping that we see a few large office towers that are above 40 stories, not just because of any obsession with 'talls' or 'supertalls' but rather to ensure we're maximizing our usage of key sites for development and to also have office towers that actually 'register' on the skyline. :)

Initially, I was hoping that we would see four office towers in the 40+ storey range (BA II, 45 Bay St, 880 Bay St, and the Richmond Adelaide III). Now it seems like only three of those will be 40+. Toronto seems most likely to get 30 storey office towers. I wonder if there are possibilities of seeing office towers in currently unutilized or poorly utilized sites that are ripe for development on and near Bay St north of City Hall?

I don't want us to be in a situation where the best sites for tall office towers are taken up by non office towers or moderately sized ones (which, in my eyes, would be Richmond Adelaide III). :(

In terms of penis contest, I hate saying it but in Canada, it's Calgary that probably has the best downtown office market in terms of the number of buildings that are 40+ floors, the number of buildings that are proposed in the 40+ range, and even the designs of many of them (i.e. not all their office towers are boxes). (I won't post any links as this information can be googled.)

I don't like the idea of Calgary having more tall office towers than Toronto (I know Toronto's core has more office space in sq. ft. than Calgary).

Rant over.
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I think you'll see more new office towers go up in Calgary over the next 10 years then Toronto ... height won't be too much different, other then a couple most of there's are in the 40 range as well.

Calgary, on the whole, is a more more centralized office market compared to most in North America. Certain suburban office nodes in the GTA have more office space then many medium size US / Canadian cities ... and this is continuing.

In the past there was a lot of talk about offices leaving the core for the 905 ... though there are new jobs and offices being built in the core now there are still many new office projects going up in the 905 ... I wouldn't say it's a matter of leaving the core anymore, the suburban GTA market is just as large as the city of Toronto ... it's an entity in it self. This isn't slowing down and will not.
 
once all the good lots are gone and prices start going up they'll start taking down some of the older/smaller buildings and putting up higher buildings, happens to every CBD once most of the lots have been developed.
 
Rumours over at SSP hint that BAC 2 may be (one of) the highly anticipated potential super-tall proposals.

Starts on Post #58 on Page 3: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=195995&page=3

osmo said:
I have word from a good source that there is indeed a firm plan for a building in the Financial District that will "surpass FCP". this firm has 2 projects in the works one will be Canada's first LEED Platinum Skyscraper, the other will be Toronto and Canada's first Supertall.
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Discussion picks up again at Post #84 on Page 5 and onward:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=195995&page=5

osmo said:
No Troll here. When I was droped this goody I did not no how much to expose... I thought maybe some people on here could fill in the gaps or we could play a game of hot or cold ;). But yes a building will be taken down to facilitate this. The parts I was murky on and didn't ask for clarification was if it was going to be BAC 2 or the New construct that would be the LEED Platinum. I was unsure of this so I thought maybe somebody on here maybe had a leg up on info and could fill in that grey spot.

But my source said the plan is to go big, they have plans to eclipse FCP. The sub levels are all ready prepped and ready to go. The Park + Parking complex will be ripped up and the tower started quite quickly once things are set in stone. I assume they are trying to go for a BCE 2.0 with a presence on Yonge.

No Troll here.. just giving you guys the news I was told. From the pieces I was told I assumed the Supertall wouldn't be LEED Platinum I brought up the aspect of cost to my source on this and they said that tenants want LEED, and I also I thought it was ballsy to try and build a LEED Supertall, and brought up how I wasn't a big fan of BAC 1 and its design (My issue was if its possible to build a quality LEED Platinum Tower in Toronto?). but good points were brought up about its extremely low environmental footprint and I guess it has been a good cash cow for the firm so if that what the market is asking for (LEED Platinum) I guess they will follow that lead.

So from my long winded responce these things are firm:

- Two Towers will be proposed in the near future in that vicinity
- One of the Towers will be a Supertall
- One of the Towers will be LEED Platinum
- Both will have high LEED certification
- Some type of demolishment will be done to the adjacent 2-stories... how far this streteches to Yonge I am unclear but in the convo my source express a desire to have a noticble presense on Yonge Street.

And I guess they hate Trump as well and wan't to try and block it out as much as they can out since Trump did not honor is setback agreement and blocks some of BAC Towers views. :haha:
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Supertall at bay/adelaide???? didnt they try this already? wasnt shadowing of NPS a dealbreaker? Hopefully they build something classy and tall as opposed to just....tall. I saw "BAC 2" and "BCE 2.0" in that post so im thinkin maybe theres also yonge and front as a possibility.....45 bay would be nice already.
 
That's interesting, but I thought shadowing issues on NPS made it highly unlikely that BAC2 (or 3) would be taller than BAC1.

The tower rumour that I keep hearing (but I'm yet to see any documents) is a new tower toward the SE end of the Eaton Centre. But that's been rumbling for a couple years now, and that's all that it's ever been. It would kind of jive with what that poster is saying tho (you'd have the underground ready to go, I believe the mall already has structural provisions for a tower there, and they'd get a Yonge St presence).
 
Keep in mind that both Scotia Plaza (275m) and the taller version of Trump (taller than Scotia to the roof) were allowed, and BA2 would be both more distant from NPS and further north. So it might get away with 25m or more of extra height over Scotia Plaza.
 
Further north would make it worse, not better. Scotia went up long before the City started to get uppity about shadowing on NPS, and Trump probably only got away with the height it did because it was basically in the shadow of Scotia anyway
 
Mongo said:
Keep in mind that both Scotia Plaza (275m) and the taller version of Trump (taller than Scotia to the roof) were allowed, and BA2 would be both more distant from NPS and further north. So it might get away with 25m or more of extra height over Scotia Plaza.
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Right, but trump has a tiny floorplate and the top 50 or so meters are too narrow to cause shadowing issues. Anything over 300 meters across adelaide from scotia plaza would certainly be a shadowing issue unless the building had ridiculously small floorplate.
 
someMidTowner said:
Anything over 300 meters across adelaide from scotia plaza would certainly be a shadowing issue unless the building had ridiculously small floorplate.
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Or unless the taller tower has presence on Yonge street, as has been stated.......a desire to have a noticble presense on Yonge Street.
A well designed thin tower at the corner of Yonge and Adelaide might just fly without the NPS shadowing fiasco.
 
whatever said:
The tower rumour that I keep hearing (but I'm yet to see any documents) is a new tower toward the SE end of the Eaton Centre. But that's been rumbling for a couple years now, and that's all that it's ever been. It would kind of jive with what that poster is saying tho (you'd have the underground ready to go, I believe the mall already has structural provisions for a tower there, and they'd get a Yonge St presence).
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Consistent with what I had heard - when 250 Yonge was being built - that the structural elements were in place for one more tower to be built, at the south end of the Eaton Centre Yonge Street parkade.
 
can't help but be extremely skeptical regarding a supertall in this area...are there really enough tenants to support yet another tall office building? i understand our office vacancy rate is still quite low (in comparison to the rest of canada) but we can't keep building these large towers hoping that we continue at this frantic pace....it just feels a tad irresponsible...not to mention i go drinking at south of temperance all the time - would hate to lose one of my fav places ;)
 
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