Toronto Bathurst Quay Revitalization | ?m | 2s | City of Toronto | Kearns Mancini

October 31 Globe and Mail Article

There is an article in today's October 31 Globe and Mail:

City looks to preserve waterfront silos
Jennifer Lewington
From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published on Friday, Oct. 30, 2009 9:08PM EDT
Last updated on Saturday, Oct. 31, 2009 2:58AM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/city-looks-to-preserve-waterfront-silos/article1346463/
silos_307841gm-a.jpg

I won't bother to post the whole text. It more or less repeats what has already been reported in this thread. The commenters are predictably ignorant and don't seem to realize that the bulk of the money being spent is for the partial demolishion and neccessary dockwall repairs, not the silo restoration itself, which is relatively small and would be funded by the land sale. The reporter got a very hackneyed, cliched response from Doug Holyday

Still, some councillors are skeptical the city can afford to restore the silos.

“It is nice to preserve things but you can't preserve everything,†says councillor Doug Holyday (Ward 3, Etobicoke Centre). “This is valuable property we should be doing something about.â€

Nobody's saying we have to preserve everything. We've already torn down other grain silos and industrial things all along the waterfront. If we can't do this modest, partial, self-funding preservation then what can we do? And what exactly does "This is valuable property we should be doing something about" mean? It's already been effectively agreed that there is going to be some level of private development here together with some community improvements. What more does he want exactly? A 50 storey condo tower? Even a tall building lover such as myself doesn't think that's appropriate south of Queens Quay (north is another matter!). Or a huge gaudy commercial/entertainment complex beyond the modest one the residents themselves have already asked for and that is perfectly consistent with the existing plans? Perhaps I am worrying too much about his offhand comment.
 
Perhaps the slip should be filled in to create a better and larger space that would allow for the silos to be better integrated into a facility of some sorts. The slip is currently un-used (the only recent use was last winter when an abandoned sail boat was moored to the side wall only to become partially submerged) and there are a couple other under-utilized slips in the area (Maple Leafs Quay, Spadina, etc).
 
• The quay on the east side of the slip, currently housing an underground parking lot and marina, was discussed. Some residents would like commercial and retail there, such as a restaurant. Vaughan noted that there are a complicated ownership and leasing arrangements there split between the federal government, City and Harbourfront Centre, which derives revenue from the parking garage, whose lower levels are currently flooded and unusable and being pumped out continually.

Does anyone have more info about this parking lot? I dont see how a underground parking lot that is constantly flooding in the lower levels is still allowed to be used... you would think the water would start undermining the supports for the higher levels.
 
Perhaps the slip should be filled in to create a better and larger space that would allow for the silos to be better integrated into a facility of some sorts. The slip is currently un-used (the only recent use was last winter when an abandoned sail boat was moored to the side wall only to become partially submerged) and there are a couple other under-utilized slips in the area (Maple Leafs Quay, Spadina, etc).

Hmm, an interesting idea, what would it cost? Personally I would prefer to maintain the existing larger water perimeter, especially once the promenade to Ireland Park is opened up and people are walking along the water's edge. It would also be good to have open if the marina quay is ever developed with retail and restaurants. The slip isn't heavily used, but some of the party boats do dock along the east side of the slip. At the meeting someone asked whether the slip would still be available for recreational boaters, and Vaughan made a snarky remark that it would be nice if the "Port" Authority actually cared about boating.

Waterfront Toronto does have some ideas here, but at a lower priority than things in the east end of the waterfront. For example, this presentation that someone posted back in the winter talks about another wavedeck at the head of the slip (pdf page 4, numbered page 3) and even another pier at the foot of the slip (pdf page 6, numbered page 5) but as not a priority.
 
I just did a quick mock up... The general idea is to make this part of the waterfront a bit more vibrant by making it a true book-end for the central waterfront. Right now it kinda ends abruptly with the music garden and by filling in the slip it provides a lot more space to create something that serves a need for the local community (restaurants/pubs, shops, etc), incorporates the silos and it would be an attractive feature for visitors to the city (especially with the airport being next door). I don't know what the cost is, but you're looking at filling in a space that's about 16,000 square metres (200m X 80m). Depending on the development, and the potential land value of the site considering it's location, I'm sure some developers would be interested (and might be willing to pay the cost of the infill or at least a portion). Who knows, but I think there's some potential there.

Siloslip.jpg


Literally took 10 mins to do, so don't mind how rough it is.
 
I just did a quick mock up... The general idea is to make this part of the waterfront a bit more vibrant by making it a true book-end for the central waterfront. Right now it kinda ends abruptly with the music garden and by filling in the slip it provides a lot more space to create something that serves a need for the local community (restaurants/pubs, shops, etc), incorporates the silos and it would be an attractive feature for visitors to the city (especially with the airport being next door). I don't know what the cost is, but you're looking at filling in a space that's about 16,000 square metres (200m X 80m). Depending on the development, and the potential land value of the site considering it's location, I'm sure some developers would be interested (and might be willing to pay the cost of the infill or at least a portion). Who knows, but I think there's some potential there.

Siloslip.jpg


Literally took 10 mins to do, so don't mind how rough it is.

I really like this concept, I don't see why we couldn't afford to lose a slip.
The flow of the Music Garden would be interrupted by the driveway which leads to the parking area to the east of the existing slip which really defeats the master plan of the Music Garden. That said, if the slip were to be filled in and re-purposed it would be a perfect opportunity for more gardens, trees and green space along with some kind of destination to draw people down to this end of Queens Quay such as a lakeside restaurant with plenty of outdoor patio space or something of the like. This could be setback about 100-150' back from the waters' edge with a lakeside promenade that would connect in with Ireland Park. As much as I love the wave decks I don't see the point of spending so much money on one here, I think a simple boardwalk along the water's edge would suffice.
 
I would argue for keeping the slip. The sight of boats near at hand along the waterfront is one of the best sights in Toronto in summer. Why lose that and for what? There is already ample space on this site for expanding the sense of greenery and gardens westerward.

... and by the way what a view of the city from this site! This project excites me though I wish some initiative would come forward to annex it for the AGO-Modern or something.

In any case I hope this is one of those projects that will get fast-tracked for 2014.
 
I would argue for keeping the slip. The sight of boats near at hand along the waterfront is one of the best sights in Toronto in summer. Why lose that and for what? There is already ample space on this site for expanding the sense of greenery and gardens westerward.

... and by the way what a view of the city from this site! This project excites me though I wish some initiative would come forward to annex it for the AGO-Modern or something.

In any case I hope this is one of those projects that will get fast-tracked for 2014.

I couldn't agree more about keeping (and improving) the slip but fail to see why the Pan-Am Games would speed this project along. If anything I suspect that projects really connected to the PanAm will get priority and $$ while others will be delayed, even more.
 
^ Your argument makes sense but leaves out the factor of one of the major reasons Toronto bid for the games: tourism.

We badly needed a shot in the arm after SARS (no pun intended) as our tourism has been in major decline ever since. It's not a coincidence that Tourism Toronto was on the bid committee and is an integral part of the team.

Having the Waterfront project complete by the time the eyes of the Western Hemisphere lay on Toronto will be a priority.

In addition, different stakeholders are in play here. It's not like all these projects are going to be funded from the same pool of money that is going towards hosting the games. Rogers will feel the pressure to go ahead with their exterior renovations on the SkyDome, the CN Tower will want to have their redevelopment complete, Nathan Philips Square's redevelopment will need to be done, neighbourhood BIA's will see an opportunity to raise money to refresh their public realms...

Both private and public money will drive a renewal of Toronto over the next 6 years in what would otherwise happen (or not happen) in staggered projects over 10 years or more.

Regarding the Malting Silos, they can't wait until 2011, let alone 2015. Their preservation work is so urgent that last week there was talk about demolishing them and turning the grounds into a parking lot for the airport and this week fences are going up and construction preparation is ongoing to restore them. The Silos couldn't wait as they were becoming unstable and unsafe.

It's going to be an exciting year of announcements and construction.
 
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I would argue for keeping the slip. The sight of boats near at hand along the waterfront is one of the best sights in Toronto in summer. Why lose that and for what? There is already ample space on this site for expanding the sense of greenery and gardens westerward.

... and by the way what a view of the city from this site! This project excites me though I wish some initiative would come forward to annex it for the AGO-Modern or something.

In any case I hope this is one of those projects that will get fast-tracked for 2014.



Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, then click again on the image for full size.

Sept. 2009 -



and a few misc. pictures of the south and east sides of the Canada Malting site from August 2008 including the metal apparatus on the east side which is being deconstructed

 
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DT, Yes that's the idea! That's the money shot of Toronto, wide pano across the bay with ships/boats in foreground and towers soaring in the background.

As for the silo project I agree with Metroman that it should be fast-tracked and my basic position from now on is that when in doubt everything should be fast-tracked and just because.
 
ya that view is one reason I think we could afford to fill in the slip. I love the fact we have slips, but the one at Maple Leaf Quay is very much underused and could serve any purpose that the Silos slip could have.

It was just a quick mockup really. I'm indifferent if there are wavedecks or a park that looks entirely different from the music garden. I think there is a lot of potential there and I guess it's just a matter of whether we think the harbourfront is better off with the slip or without it. Personally, I think we could do a lot more for the waterfront if we infill that section than if we were to leave it be.
 
Doesn't the slip help keep the vantage point? If you fill it in the perspective would be lost, no?
 
Slip

I think the slip is important, we've filled in enough of Lake Ontario as it is.

It might be interesting if someone came up with a floating pavilion of some sort in this space, even if it was for a temporary exhibition.
 

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