Toronto 954 Broadview (Estonian House Redevelopment) | 50.5m | 14s | Diamond Kilmer | Graziani + Corazza

Ex-Montreal Girl said:
The front face is the only aspect that's covered over by a 60s era facade. As far as I can tell, the designation is to protect the entire structure. The old/original sides are still visible.
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Thus, they can't do any exterior modifications,.... I wonder if they're even allowed to maintain the addition they added in the front. Ideally that should go and the original front face be restored to its former glory.

But the lot is very deep,... any development will just have to rely on underground parking constructed directly west of the heritage property,.....there is a buffer with the ravine,... so that'll limit parking and thus size of development. Development on this part of the lot could be challenged by the single residential houses directly south with transition, shadowing and wind effect. If there's also creek or waterway or even a source for a tributary on the land or nearby that would be affected,.... more studies would need to be done on impact,... thus, delaying and minimizing any development here,....

Those 4 apartment/condo towers directly north likely wouldn't get developed today because they seem to violate the new valley slope transition principle.

Best thing now is to get clarification when they develop the Broadview Secondary Plan,.... here there's a number of ridge top high density development that blocks off the valley from the existing single residential houses.
 
sunnyraytoronto said:
Thus, they can't do any exterior modifications,.... I wonder if they're even allowed to maintain the addition they added in the front. Ideally that should go and the original front face be restored to its former glory.

But the lot is very deep,... any development will just have to rely on underground parking constructed directly west of the heritage property,.....there is a buffer with the ravine,... so that'll limit parking and thus size of development. Development on this part of the lot could be challenged by the single residential houses directly south with transition, shadowing and wind effect. If there's also creek or waterway or even a source for a tributary on the land or nearby that would be affected,.... more studies would need to be done on impact,... thus, delaying and minimizing any development here,....

Those 4 apartment/condo towers directly north likely wouldn't get developed today because they seem to violate the new valley slope transition principle.

Best thing now is to get clarification when they develop the Broadview Secondary Plan,.... here there's a number of ridge top high density development that blocks off the valley from the existing single residential houses.
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You're better informed than I am.

My expertise is local history and I know that, decades ago, the area directly to the north of the school -- i.e. where those three 60s era towers site -- was covered in sand dunes. Or at least that's how they are described in the memoirs of boy who attended the school way back when. It was a great place to play "war" -- as in WW1. Nothing like pretend dying in a pretend trench, I guess.

To my knowledge it's not really part of the watershed.
 
Now that the original school-house structure is declared a heritage property, it might be interesting to get the entire Estonian House declared a heritage property based on cultural context, even though the addition happened in 1960's time period. This limits the land the developer can touch,... restrict them further and further west of Broadview Ave,... towards the valley where they'll be limited by the amount of parking they can put in close to valley ridge and transition of the valley slope limit their height as well.

There's a million places in the GTA where development can happen,... but there's only a few sites that are worthy of heritage designation,.... this old school house is definitely worthy of heritage protection. If any development happens on this site, it should be on the condition that the original school-house gets fully restored to it's original glory including the front-face - original facade - that might qualify as Section 37 Community Benefits,... It would mean demolish the front facade addition from the 1960's,... and the resulting open space in front from the demolition of the 1970's addition can be converted to open space as on-site parkland dedication. Should also try to get developer money for trail path from ridge of this property down to the trails in Todmorden Mills Road area.

The new Broadview Secondary Plan will be a template for development,.... what and where its allowed,.... right now high density development seems to be in a wild west mode in this area since there's high density apartments right next to single residential houses. And a lot of those high density developments were placed there without regards to the valley. If it was a clean slate and development was starting today in that area, most of those 25-storey apartment at valley ridge would never have been approved,.... they would have been chopped down to mid-rise of about 8-storeys based on transition of valley slope.
 
Not sure it's actually yet a Heritage property officially signed sealed delivered. The process is definitely underway.

In any case, I agree that it's one of the few structures worthy of designation, especially in Old East York.

I would love to see the city/province kick in some money to improve/renovate the EH so that it could become a much more attractive venue for weddings/Bar Mitzvahs/plays and be somewhat self-sustaining. The school could be exposed and restored at the same time. This would allow the community to hang on to their centre at this location which is what they set out to do. Win-win.

P.S. I wonder if the mods/admins believe this thread should remain titled what it's titled since Alterrra is gone.
 
City and Province will not kick in a dime to improve or renovate interior of any Heritage Property,.... if so, everyone in a Victorian house would be constantly renovating! Whatever commerce that happens within the structure is the business of the landowner and not the government. The City and Province has enough problem maintaining their own properties, especially older properties,.... thus, why would the City and Province want to maintain someone else's.

City give discounted tax rate for Heritage Property and there's a partial grant for exterior work only; in this case, the front-face facade from the 1960's addition would have to be demolished in order for the original front face facade of the original school house to be exposed,... exterior work on the front face facade of the original school house should be eligible for Heritage Property grant.

If Estonian House finds it hard to stay afloat, then they're not operating efficiently or their business model is wrong or they don't have enough community support. Either way,... the City and Province isn't and shouldn't be wasting taxpayer dollars supporting such losing ventures. At the end of the day, Estonian House is on a huge plot of land at this site, lot size is approximately 100ft x 450ft and more than half of it is parking lot!,.... the soon to be Heritage Property designated old school-house only takes up a small portion of that land,.... if Estonian House needs money, they should severe part of their land namely the parking lot closer to the valley ridge and sell that off to developer.

Problem is they seem to be jerking around with the locals, their community and the developers,... went through 2 developers already,.... pissed off locals getting the site designated as Heritage Property,... good luck developing on that now.
 
The only thing most Developers care about is making a huge profit,..... the best way to fight Developers is to cut into their profit! Lower the scale of the development, lower the height, lower the density; especially when Developer goes outside what's allowed in the Zoning, Official Plan, Secondary Plan, etc,... for the area,.... Go after their bottom line and increase their cost! In this case, the Heritage Property designation would increase their cost of moving the structure elsewhere since it can't be demolished. If the Heritage Property remains on site, then the development will have to be constructed around or over it,... increasing the engineering and cost significantly. At the end of the day, unless the Developer wants to waste their time on a much smaller scale project, they're better off moving onto to another project. Developers are greedy and lazy,... they go after the lowest hanging fruits first,.... too much trouble for them to go after the higher hanging fruits,....

In most cases, locals fighting Developers face a losing battle and best for Locals to just focus on getting the right Section37 Community Benefits that'll benefit their community the most.

So,.... Kudos to the local individual who first suggested the old school house should be protected with a Heritage Property Designation. I grew up a stone throw away in Riverdale and been pass this site numerous times,... but never even realize there was an old school house hidden behind the 1960's brick front face facade.
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On page 4 of that document it says "1982 The property is added to the East York Inventory of Heritage Buildings",... thus, why did the local Councillor need another newer heritage designation for this property? Maybe fortifying it with a higher Heritage Designation??? I've always been confused with the various Heritage Property designation,... this just adds more confusion. Usually, there should be a Heritage Designation plaque outside in front of the property. Anyways, I've already skimmed through the thread and most of the city docs,...

Some neighbourhoods have most of their houses declared as Heritage Properties,.... some neighbourhoods have their entire neighbourhood declared as Heritage District,.... one reason they do this is to protect their neighbourhood from Development.

Anyways,... Heritage Property Designation to a Developer is like,... Kryptonite to Superman!
 
So this property has been on the T0-Do Heritage Property list for 34 Years,... and nobody gotten around to doing anything about it?!?!?! It's paramount that this property gets an official full Heritage Property Designation ASAP.

I've seen declared Heritage Properties get official declaration from City Council and then a few days later Developer legally demolish the property the night before the "Notice of intention to designate" was published in the newspaper - where Developer would have lost the right to demolish.

As a non-Heritage Property,.... this land and potential project are worth a heck of a lot of money to a Developer and hence the Land Owner in a joint project with Developer,... much more so than a scaled down or more complex project dealing with the Heritage Property Designation,.... and after seeing all the drama here already,..... it wouldn't surprise me to see more drama before the official full Heritage Property Designation come into effect. Sadly, right now the char remains on this property after a well timed large fire or explosion would ensure Developer and LandOwner both maximize their profits,.... Thus, it really is paramount that this property gets an official full Heritage Property Designation ASAP with the "Notice of intention to designate" published in the newspaper ASAP.
 
Yikes!!!

"Sadly, right now the char remains on this property after a well timed large fire or explosion would ensure Developer and LandOwner both maximize their profits,.... Thus, it really is paramount that this property gets an official full Heritage Property Designation ASAP with the "Notice of intention to designate" published in the newspaper ASAP."

Isn't this enough? >> http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.TE18.15
 
We got to that City Council approval stage for a local Heritage Property as well,..... but as I mentioned a few days later it was legally demolished the night before the "Notice of intention to designate" was published in the newspaper - where Developer would have lost the right to demolish. For this site was there a "Notice of intention to designate" published in the newspaper? And my local Heritage Property Designation issue happened about 10 years ago,... so rules may have changed since then.

Like I mentioned before I'm not a Heritage Property Designation expert,.... you'll need to contact the appropriate city staff or get the local councillor to, the councillor who put in the motion for Heritage Property Designation at this site,... to ensure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. If the Developer - LandOwner finds a loophole, they'll take advantage of that,....
 
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There's no longer a Zoning By-Law Amendment application on the City's books for this site.

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