87 Peter | 156m | 49s | Menkes | Core Architects

maestro

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It's false that developers of these large scale projects hold the purse and aren't constrained to budgets that deliver on the status quo rate of return to investors. No one is self financing. IMO, value engineering affects curtain wall vs window wall, etc. more than design and design is, unfortunately, a subjective matter left to one's personal tastes. Time and time again, the developers from artistic fields of work put up better architecture than those that got there from the construction side and cladding used isn't all that different. It's definitely not indifference. The skyline is full of inspired superficial gimmicks.
 

Pfloyd

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It's false that developers of these large scale projects hold the purse and aren't constrained to budgets that deliver on the status quo rate of return to investors. No one is self financing. IMO, value engineering affects curtain wall vs window wall, etc. more than design and design is, unfortunately, a subjective matter left to one's personal tastes. Time and time again, the developers from artistic fields of work put up better architecture than those that got there from the construction side and cladding used isn't all that different. It's definitely not indifference. The skyline is full of inspired superficial gimmicks.
Whether the "client" is a developer, a municipality, a government, corporation or individual, caring about design and its place in constructing a memorable urban experience matters tremendously. Maybe not in Toronto or Canada or North America, but it does in cities which coincidentally, are the most visited and admired in the world. Try visiting places like Barcelona, Paris, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Madrid, London, Melbourne, Vienna, etc. and you'll see what I mean.
 

Ramako

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Sorry, this notion that one firm is noble beyond all others is naïve: you need to aAlter your view of one of them. Truth is that every firm has payroll to make, and no-one of any size has a perfect track record, there are blemishes on every record.

42
I've heard it straight from a developer's mouth. Generally aA won't agree compromise their designs as much as some other firms.
 

interchange42

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I've heard it straight from a developer's mouth. Generally aA won't agree compromise their designs as much as some other firms.
My take is that, based on the evidence of Alter in particular, that's no longer as true as it once was. As a firm grows, and has an increasingly large payroll to cover, it becomes harder and harder to refuse some compromises: you expand to service new clients, and then become increasingly dependent upon their continuing patronage, and have a harder time saying 'no'. Alter says to me that aA have reached that point.

42
 

88drums

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My take is that, based on the evidence of Alter in particular, that's no longer as true as it once was. As a firm grows, and has an increasingly large payroll to cover, it becomes harder and harder to refuse some compromises: you expand to service new clients, and then become increasingly dependent upon their continuing patronage, and have a harder time saying 'no'. Alter says to me that aA have reached that point.

42
There are examples that go the other way too, though. Is it a coincidence that the only half decent condo Menkes has delivered this boom (Harbour Plaza) is aA? Could that be driven at least in part by an uncompromizing commitment to design?

I agree that Alter was a miss, but I think it's too early to suggest that aA are nearing the level of Toronto's many other "bite your lip and throw in the waist-height mullions because the budget just got slashed" types of firms.
 

Lyphe

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God that is absolute crap.
It reminds me of what you'd see for the back door exit of a cheap club.
This literally looks like somebody had a $500 budget ... spray painted an old facia black ... and then stencilled while spray painted lines on top.
 

Deaf_Torontian

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I'm not sure why so many are complaining- it's clearly one of the more handsome loading docks in this city.
I know, I think 87 peter look nice tower and yc condo look awesome tower but I don't know why there is too many negative what they judged it so I'm hand off and let what they think in negative (darkness of spirit), very sad
 

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