Toronto 699 Yonge | 216.54m | 64s | Concord Adex | DIALOG

telefann said:
To finish up ghastly spandrel builds that were initially conceived in the 2000s-2010s is one thing. To openly propose new spandrel in 2023 (and render it for the "public eye", if that weren't enough) is to sink into the lowest depths of civic and urban depravity. At a time when we in Toronto are finally (FINALLY!) witnessing a few hopeful emergent signs of a more finessed design culture from players both foreign and domestic (after a good 2 to 3 decades of this construction boom), that some appear to have learned absolutely nothing over these years is beyond baffling. I won't mince words here. This proposal represents an unacceptably shoddy standard of aesthetics and design near one of this city's most prestigious prime intersections. And to have the gall to stick this trash heap right across the street from The One and its sophisticated, worldly, metropolitan glory. After 10-15+ years of this sickening cheap-grey-mullion-spandrel fest within the condo industry, there's simply no other word to describe the dreck coming from Concord, Canderel, et al. Unacceptable.
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I love the vehemence with which you pack your punch, enough that I had to "haha" the post. I agree that many building proposals appear to have learned nothing when it comes to aesthetics…

…but what "they" have learned is that not every site can afford the quality of cladding that buildings like The One are getting, and in fact it's only the few that do. Essentially The One is built for the one percent, and the prices reflect that. Other developers know that that upper end market is saturated mostly, so they're intending to build for the hoi polloi, and the building exteriors are going to reflect that. Not that there aren't different quality levels within that hoi polloi range, and not that there aren't more pleasing expressions available at certain middle price points…

But there's just no way that we are ever going to get The One quality on average buildings. Not possible. Here's hoping, however, that the next iteration of this rather ghastly plan looks better than this first salvo does.

42
 
ProjectEnd said:
Put. Curtain Wall (or full wall assemblies). In. The. Code.
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I always wondered - is it so much more expensive that it's untenable? I'd assume development margins are fairly consistent across cities so I'm always surprised to see the average cladding on a Vancouver or MTL project being so much better than here. May assumption may be completely out of whack of course.
 
interchange42 said:
I love the vehemence with which you pack your punch, enough that I had to "haha" the post. I agree that many building proposals appear to have learned nothing when it comes to aesthetics…

…but what "they" have learned is that not every site can afford the quality of cladding that buildings like The One are getting, and in fact it's only the few that do. Essentially The One is built for the one percent, and the prices reflect that. Other developers know that that upper end market is saturated mostly, so they're intending to build for the hoi polloi, and the building exteriors are going to reflect that. Not that there aren't different quality levels within that hoi polloi range, and not that there aren't more pleasing expressions available at certain middle price points…

But there's just no way that we are ever going to get The One quality on average buildings. Not possible. Here's hoping, however, that the next iteration of this rather ghastly plan looks better than this first salvo does.

42
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To be fair, I don't think telefann-san is looking for every building with The One quality here. Rather something that considerably better at a reasonable price range. I'm pretty sure that can be done...without resorting to this orgy of cheapening out as this developer is proposing for this site.
 
ProjectEnd said:
In Toronto it's about double (for standard curtain wall - no shadow box or fancy spandrel design).
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How does the unit cost compare here for the different types of curtain wall?

I did some cursory examination of the issue in Vancouver, and can't say I've gained sufficient insight to comment intelligently, but I have ascertained that unitized curtain wall seems to be a particularly common choice relative to stick or pointed-load.

Is that also the case here?

****

This piece on the issue of glazing in Vancouver is rather dated (2012) but still an interesting read for those with a penchant for construction geekery.

www.constructioncanada.net

The evolution of glazing in Vancouver

When looking at its skyline, it is no wonder why Vancouver is known as the “City of Glass.” Glass high-rise buildings, each one taller than the next, have been the architectural vision developed over many years (Figure 1). In fact, the relationship between West Coast architecture and glazing...
www.constructioncanada.net www.constructioncanada.net
 
Northern Light said:
How does the unit cost compare here for the different types of curtain wall?

I did some cursory examination of the issue in Vancouver, and can't say I've gained sufficient insight to comment intelligently, but I have ascertained that unitized curtain wall seems to be a particularly common choice relative to stick or pointed-load.

Is that also the case here?

****

This piece on the issue of glazing in Vancouver is rather dated (2012) but still an interesting read for those with a penchant for construction geekery.

www.constructioncanada.net

The evolution of glazing in Vancouver

When looking at its skyline, it is no wonder why Vancouver is known as the “City of Glass.” Glass high-rise buildings, each one taller than the next, have been the architectural vision developed over many years (Figure 1). In fact, the relationship between West Coast architecture and glazing...
www.constructioncanada.net www.constructioncanada.net
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Van is a bit more expensive, but we're close enough these days. Problem with that explanation is they're also getting quality product in places like Burnaby, Lougheed, Metrotown, and Surrey. Toronto's development culture is extremely 'cheap and mean', so to speak. Not that we don't have exceptions to that rule, but it's an overly-cost-conscious clientele running things here, unfortunately.
 
I agree that this proposal is a disgrace and, if built, will only add to general civic embarrassment over the wretchedness of Toronto's built form. I think there's just a general lack civic pride or vision among the bean counters who run things. It could be that many of them are carpet-baggers looking to make a quick buck before fleeing back home or to more pleasant climes with their stuffed bags of lucre.

Toronto has always had a rep as a place that prioritized work over pleasure, and it lures people seeking high earning careers rather than beautiful vistas. Also, so much rubbish has been erected in the current, endless boom that there is little incentive to take the effort and profit cut to build something that pleases the eye and contributes to the overall aesthetic betterment. Developers can't be trusted to have civic interests in mind so it has to come down to the elected officials who approve what gets built.

There just seems to be something missing in the city's DNA that could lead to more desirable outcomes. I have no idea how this can be rectified other than shouting from rooftops (and other media), and voting for people who seem to care about this issue (if that's an available option). Anywho, just my 2 cents from a former resident.
 
j_yyz said:
On the news today:

A well-known Toronto strip club could soon be designated as a heritage site​


toronto.ctvnews.ca

A well-known Toronto strip club could soon be designated as a heritage site

A well-known downtown strip club could soon be designated a heritage property in Toronto.
toronto.ctvnews.ca toronto.ctvnews.ca
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It is amusing, I agree; but worth noting, under that garish exterior, there is the brick facade of a 19thC building......

Curiously, even in the Heritage Impact Statement there is no clear picture of what the facade looked like pre-1960s (whereupon the Brass Rail had already overclad the original, albeit somewhat differently than today)

1970 version of the overclad:

1700167176023.png


Best image of the likely (likely) original appearance is a poorly angle views from a distance from 1938, building outlined in pink:

1700167258790.png
 
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