Toronto 699 Lawrence West | 128.56m | 38s | Midtown West Residences | Core Architects

toronto is unaffordable because our wonderful - corrupt officials allow money to be laundered here - via wealthy foreigners purchasing property as they please - read up before blaming locals citizens ,,,,,

Yes money laundering is an issue in Canada, no question.

However, the value of Toronto Real Estate is more a function of surging population growth well ahead of the development industry's willingness or ability to build.

Property value is ascertained by what someone is willing to pay to own or rent it. Even money launderers typically avoid flushing their money down the toilet to clean it.

I think there's plenty of room for an intelligent discussion about the Federal and Provincial governments policy choices on population growth; but let's not let those real concerns diminish the reality
that housing is unaffordable to many here, to rent or own, and that more supply does need to be part of that solution.

Notwithstanding that, I don't agree with a 40-storey building on this particular site, for reasons I've already articulated. I simply don't think the local infrastructure can support it, and the City has insufficient funds/political will to address that.

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John, may I suggest you dial back the intensity. You're wandering very close to the line on calling complete strangers, who have never taken any issue w/you or insulted you, idiots.

If you cross that line as a new member, you may find your stay here remarkably short.

It's ok to disagree; but let's keep it civil
 
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Subway has constant delays - eglinton still not built - negative 10 degrees for up to 6 months; but sure, lets pretend we can cycle or commute around town; this structure is a joke and should never have been considered.
So what happens when it gets approved?
and magically turn it into an urban ghetto - clearly you don't live there; plans should be for low rise units replacing the old strip malls littered everywhere - and add needed greenspace
Oh boy. Forget apartment dwellers, it's unquestionably you I'd never want to live around.
 
Yes money laundering is an issue in Canada, no question.

However, the value of Toronto Real Estate is more a function of surging population growth well ahead of the development industry's willingness or ability to build.

Property value is ascertained by what someone is willing to pay to own or rent it. Even money launderers typically avoid flushing their money down the toilet to clean it.

I think there's plenty of room for an intelligent discussion about the Federal and Provincial governments policy choices on population growth; but lets not let those real concerns diminish the reality
that housing is unaffordable to many here, to rent or own, and that more supply does need to be part of that solution.

Notwithstanding that, I don't agree with a 40-storey building on this particular site, for reasons I've already articulated. I simply don't think the local infrastructure can support it, and the City has insufficient funds/political will to address that.

****

John, may I suggest you dial back the intensity. You're wandering very close to the line on calling complete strangers, who have never taken any issue w/you or insulted you, idiots.

If you cross that line as a new member, you may find your stay here remarkably short.

Its ok to disagree; but lets keep it civil
intensity is what happens when developers put up posters arbitrarily and forcefully - in areas predominantly residential - with massive developments out of place and out of context, with little input from those who have to endure their profit driven plans. gentrification is needed - not at the scale that is being pushed.
 
So what happens when it gets approved?

Oh boy. Forget apartment dwellers, it's unquestionably you I'd never want to live around.
toronto is being destroyed by massive urban planning like this - aka liberty village - but sure I'm the problem
 
intensity is what happens when developers put up posters arbitrarily and forcefully - in areas predominantly residential - with massive developments out of place and out of context, with little input from those who have to endure their profit driven plans. gentrification is needed - not at the scale that is being pushed.
toronto is being destroyed by massive urban planning like this - aka liberty village - but sure I'm the problem
This is just an assemblage of words, and largely wrong ones, at that.
 
intensity is what happens when developers put up posters

Posters?

arbitrarily and forcefully - in areas predominantly residential - with massive developments out of place and out of context, with little input from those who have to endure their profit driven plans.

I think your description goes just a bit too far again. I don't think it's reasonable to assume a developer's choice on what to build and where is entirely arbitrary. You (or I ) may disagree with what has been proposed for any number of reasons, but I think you would find the developer chose a site that was available to purchase, for a price a developer believed made redevelopment viable and profitable; and that they have likely proposed something they feel may get approved, and/or are using the proposal as a negotiating tactic to arrive at a compromise with which they will be happy.

That, by definition is not arbitrary.

My politics are not partisan nor particularly ideological; but in general, people would describe me, I think, as sympathetic to those in need and to sensible state intervention to help create a fairer world. For all that, I'm not intrinsically opposed to all capitalism and all profit. I'm not sure how many people would engage in any kind of business if they didn't expect to make some (profit); and that being the case, I'm not sure developers should be subject to some sort of moral sanction because they expect to make money on what they do.

That does not mean they should get carte blanche to do as they wish; but the limits on them, I would argue, should be based on sound principles from provided accessibility, to meeting sound building standards, to ensuring sufficient infrastructure in the community to support said development etc.

gentrification is needed - not at the scale that is being pushed.

Sure. Not the way I'd put it, but we're close enough to agree here; but to the extent you can influence anyone to support your position, and /or gain information that might help you in opposing this proposal as constituted, you'll be more likely
to succeed through kind, respectful communication; and through a bit of nuance in your posts. Extreme statements will not serve your cause well.
 
toronto is being destroyed by massive urban planning like this

'Destroyed' is again far too strong a word here; even if you dislike this style of development or this particular proposal, the apocalypse is not nigh.

Equally, this proposal is contrary to the established plans for this area; so I don't think you can blame 'urban planning' writ large for the proposal, irrespective of your take on it.

You might take issue with lobbying and with provincial growth policies, rightly or wrongly as the case may be.

- aka liberty village

Liberty Village does have some problems, but is still among the most sought after addresses by young and middle aged professionals alike.

The problems with LV aren't cataclysmic but are real just the same. Streets overwhelmed with traffic at times; inadequate sidewalk and park space, proper rapid transit in support of the density was not established at the outset, and I would argue that more industrial heritage should have been preserved to augment the best characteristics of the area.

For all of that LV is not some 'ghetto' or terrible area to live.

The only real comparison between LV and this proposal is that its cart before the horse in terms of having the infrastructure to support the density.

- but sure I'm the problem

If you come on to any forum, on any subject and start post number one/two not with 'hi' and some kind of intro, but instead go on full blast against anything, it doesn't read particularly well. Even people who agree with you may find that a tad ill mannered.

That you're also taking an anti-development stance on a forum that's all about development is going to make this just a bit more challenging as well. There are lots of developments that people here either oppose or oppose in their current form; but that tends to be expressed with some nuance and after people get to know a bit about as you a person/poster.
 
toronto is unaffordable because our wonderful - corrupt officials allow money to be laundered here - via wealthy foreigners purchasing property as they please - read up before blaming locals citizens - this project is trash - belongs on Broadway or Front Street
This is part of the issue, but it's not the main cause. If I remember correctly, the vast majority of investors are domestic Canadians.

Excessive population growth and overly loose monetary policies are major drivers of the problem. As are rigid zoning, labour and materials costs and various administrative delays/red tape. Your activism must be focused on those issues, not any single project.
 
the issues - and there are many:
- this site is by far pro-development; leaves the impression it is a venue for developers to promote their ambitions and use the site as an imaginary town hall.
- i see many, countless billboards promoting large scale developments with little public input, next to zero urban planning such as greenspace, amenities and anything that favors residents.
- councilors jump on the bandwagon of high density living with virtually zero infrastructure; leads to distrust of them and the process
- excessive growth - correct record immigration last year; govt cannot even confirm the numbers; majority cannot afford $1m condo - this is more likely foreign affluent purchasers disrupting the market for citizens
- city is flooded with run-down strip malls that can be converted to townhomes and low level condo's not these huge towers that do the opposite of creating communities and just fill the developers pockets
- 30% of LV should have been zoned for parks - it a joke living there now
- you may have noticed that residents are trapped there - i know many; cannot afford to get out, forced to raise families there with no available greenspace to speak of - it's a failure; fun if you want a frat house for a couple of years.
- one point i do agree with - terrible monetary policy at all levels of govt - large part of the problem.
 
Note that this dissemination area has declined in population by 31% (a loss of 238 residents) over the past 40 years.

There's lots of room to intensify here. Transit- and climate-friendly development next to major transit nodes is the best way to do so. This isn't the 70s any more. If Toronto is a big city that wants to be a small town, it will become a worse place to live. This project is more than reasonable.
 
the issues - and there are many:
- this site is by far pro-development; leaves the impression it is a venue for developers to promote their ambitions and use the site as an imaginary town hall.

This site has many developers on it; and urban planners (both private and city) and also has politicians, activists of all sorts, people who work in transit, professional environmentalists, engineers, architects etc.

Certainly, the site leans in a pro-development direction. I don't think it serves you well to come on to such a site and deride it, and its members with broad, generalist bromides.

If you go onto a website all about dining out and deride it for being pro-restaurant........you won't find that goes so well either.

- i see many, countless billboards promoting large scale developments with little public input, next to zero urban planning such as greenspace, amenities and anything that favors residents.

The Toronto Planning process, for all its flaws, certainly has ample provision for public input.

There was a very public, very long process to create The Official Plan.

Subsequently, changes to that plan occur when developers (or others in some cases) ask to change the plan, or the underlying zoning.

The City then responds to that request by requiring posting an official notice on the site of a proposed change to let everyone know the ask is being made and it invite public comment and participation.

There are opportunities to attend one or more meetings, to meet with representatives of the developer, City Planning and the City Councillor.

That's a lot more engagement than you will get when government or business makes almost any other type of change to a law, a social program or the price you pay or product selection at your local store.

- councilors jump on the bandwagon of high density living with virtually zero infrastructure; leads to distrust of them and the process

Councillors have to deal with provincial mandates, and an appeals board known as OLT which approves the majority of development proposals that go before it.

A Councillor must carefully balance getting what they think is the best deal they can for the community out of any given proposal, understanding, that if they fail to reach a deal, something less appealing may occur over their objection.

- excessive growth - correct record immigration last year; govt cannot even confirm the numbers; majority cannot afford $1m condo - this is more likely foreign affluent purchasers disrupting the market for citizens

This is a federal/provincial policy with with the City must live, it has no choice. Expressing concern over those policies is fair game, I do as well. But you need to take them up w/the correct party.

Also, the largest increase in immigration is not in points-based immigrants (simplistic shorthand here, those with money); rather, its in foreign students and to a lesser but still significant degree with Temporary Foreign Workers.
Again, this is not a municipal decision, nor for that matter a developer decision. Its Federal and provincial.

- city is flooded with run-down strip malls that can be converted to townhomes and low level condo's not these huge towers that do the opposite of creating communities and just fill the developers pockets

While I certainly agree that not every road and site need be 40s towers; neither should they all be townhomes, your preference won't work for everyone

People need a range of options based on tenure (owner/renter); price point (affordable to posh); and lifestyle (driver/transit rider/cyclist, young/old, empty nester/young family etc.)

- 30% of LV should have been zoned for parks - it a joke living there now

Calling anything a joke is not really a way to be treated seriously.

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There is no statutory power to compel 30% parkland in any area; and even in parks-heavy suburban areas a dedication that large is nearly unheard of......

While special rules exist for some sites, broadly, the City is able to require or has been able to require about 10% parkland. I think that's low, but those are the rules under which they operate.

They could choose to take what were called S. 37 benefits (now Community Benefits) in the form of additional park space, or they could have purchased some land to add more park space. Its a fair enough critique to suggest more would be desirable.

But its not fair if your picking a number wildly out of the air that the City is in no position to deliver.

- you may have noticed that residents are trapped there - i know many; cannot afford to get out, forced to raise families there with no available greenspace to speak of - it's a failure; fun if you want a frat house for a couple of years.

Trapped? They can move; but aside from that, LV will be getting a new park; whether that is sufficient is a different question, but it will improve things.
 
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Note that this dissemination area has declined in population by 31% (a loss of 238 residents) over the past 40 years.

There's lots of room to intensify here. Transit- and climate-friendly development next to major transit nodes is the best way to do so. This isn't the 70s any more. If Toronto is a big city that wants to be a small town, it will become a worse place to live. This project is more than reasonable.

You know your post is as problematic as John's right?

This project isn't reasonable by any objective standard, as currently contemplated, in light of the supporting infrastructure in place.

You both have exactly the same way of thinking; I like what I like, I want what I want and everything must fall into line to support my truth, the facts be damned.

How about getting the facts first, then drawing a conclusion; how about clarifying the difference between preference and fact.

I really object to magic thinking.
 
Oh! Sorry! I'll try not to "magically think" next time!

I've got my preferred outcomes as do you. This area can support more people. Get real.
 
Oh! Sorry! I'll try not to "magically think" next time!

I've got my preferred outcomes as do you. This area can support more people. Get real.

Personal insults, instead of facts; that's the problem.

I didn't argue against development here. This is always your go-to. On any street, anywhere, the only problem with any development is that it's under 100 storeys and 2,000 units in one building, and really it should be double that.

Not because you've examined the capacity of electricity distribution in the area, or watermains or sewers, not because you've read the traffic impact study or looked at school capacity or the response time of Toronto Fire; but because 'build, build, build'.

I'm pro development, but not at any scale, anywhere, in each case one must examine the underlying context and facts. Those aren't personal; what's personal is your obliviousness to the facts and your unwillingness to consider them.

Back on ignore you go.
 
A 40 storey tower isn't ecofriendly by the way. Neither are miles of suburbia, but clearly there's a happy middle to be found.
 

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