picard102
Senior Member
Most of the nightclubs on this street were not purpose built.
Toronto 506 Church | 159.25m | 48s | Graywood | Diamond Schmitt
- Thread starter Red_Bulmer
- Start date
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Exactly my point. Most (almost all) aren't.
Fad225
Active Member
So depressing
...therefore it would be a huge mistake to plan ahead when the entire building topology of the area is changing? As the types of buildings come down that have housed the clubs over the years, we are building ones in their place that are much harder to convert after the fact, but don't let that be cause for reflection, let's just build every condo the same everywhere. I am glad that Pride Toronto offices have been provided for, but that's not all that this community needs. Certainly you'd need someone with deep pockets and an interest in catering to the LGBTQ+2S community with a dance club or two here... I just want to see the possibility for something out of the ordinary to be accommodated here.
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UrbanFervour
Active Member
I think a larger scale is ok here but not (yet) another generic bohemoth with a mediocre 2.5 storey house facade retention pinned onto it. This typology has become such a bad joke.
I don't think preserving the heritage facades is a great win. In this scheme or in the previous one. They aren't storefronts- they're houses that were desgined for families. They had lawns. They are inaccessible, they ahve small windows, and out of the scale and context in which they were built (think Cabbagetown) they are just an impediment to designing a robust commercaial streetscape ... I'd rather see a good new building than a mediocre old facade pinned onto a dud.
I don't think preserving the heritage facades is a great win. In this scheme or in the previous one. They aren't storefronts- they're houses that were desgined for families. They had lawns. They are inaccessible, they ahve small windows, and out of the scale and context in which they were built (think Cabbagetown) they are just an impediment to designing a robust commercaial streetscape ... I'd rather see a good new building than a mediocre old facade pinned onto a dud.
picard102
Senior Member
Without these tacked on houses, I'm not confident we'd get anything remotely "good". At least here they provide a connection to the history of the street rather than another banal flat storefronts.
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Utter garbage.
unrealestate
Active Member
my god what a shit "design"
Doppleganger
Active Member
Going from 14 stories to 48 is a significant height increase. If we are serious about preserving the character of the Village, then a forty-plus-story tower fronting onto Church might not be the best way to go about it. Though the previous iteration was not what I would consider easy on the eyes(OK, IMO it was butt-ugly, and that blank wall towering over O'Grady's really irked me), it was at least stepped back and more to scale with the human element. Neighbourhoods like the 'Village', Kensington Market, Chinatown and Yorkville are a part of what makes Toronto different from Cleveland or Chicago. We aren't being intellectually honest with ourselves if we believe that we can allow development like this to proceed while at the same time maintaining the character of the 'Village'. Neighbourhoods almost always go through transitions on their own, but typically this is a slow, multi-generations process not turbo-charged by any one person or decision at city hall. If, for some reason, we do decide that these places aren't worth preserving or that they can be sacrificed piecemeal in the name of 'progress' with nothing more than a historical plaque to mark their former location, then fine, as long as we also realize there is no turning back. I do hope that whoever makes that decision or sets that precedent has the courage of their convictions to someday come forward and explain their actions, with one proviso...that their name(s) also be added to that plaque.
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Rascacielo
Senior Member
There are already a couple of 40+ story towers fronting Church about 3 minutes walk from this site. If this is approved, no doubt the developer of the long-gestating project at the NW corner of Church & Wellesley will resubmit a taller application (at least as tall as this, if not even taller). While it's a shame that Church St north of Gerrard is becoming yet another condo canyon, the issue is the quality of the towers. This is another lazy attempt to differentiate a boring tower by employing different tones of balcony glazing, creating patterns. Enough already!
Doppleganger
Active Member
Granted, there are already towers nearby, so perhaps the precedent has already been set. But I do disagree that this is an issue of the tower's quality. One of the unique characteristics of the Village is its early 20th-century lowrise apartment buildings and 19th-century, mostly two and three-storey Victorian structures that have evolved and been heavily modified over the years. In spite of Church St. becoming something of a traffic canyon, these structures create a sense of welcome, ambience and charm that will be lost if towers proliferate the area. Of course, infilling and densification must take place, but on a scale and with materials commensurate with the existing neighbourhood. If we wish to preserve the Village, then is it really asking too much that we restrict highrise development fronting onto Church on the eleven or so blocks between Charles and Gerrard?
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Rascacielo
Senior Member
I’m afraid the horse has already bolted on that one (height in the village), but perhaps the city will take a stand on this proposal and reject it, thus setting a precedent for say the stretch between Wood and Wellesley.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
...I would have dialled it back all they way back to before 365 ever got approved. Damn there's been some janky arsed, soulless developments and proposals (including this one) since in one of The City's brightest spots...and to put it mildly.
TossYourJacket
Senior Member
So I'd argue there is a difference between a tower being 3 minutes from the street and right on the street. I personally love the vibe of Church Street as a set of low rise stores with towers just outside that. I love the contrast. It feels like something special in downtown Toronto.
And yes if this is approved, every other project in the area will be the same. Putting a Pride Toronto office in this building means nothing if it sets a precedent for every remaining LGBT space in the village to be turned into a Bay St-esque condo canyon (also Pride Toronto may be less controversial than it was circa 2019 but I wouldn't say it's a universally loved organization with the local community). If approved, this project now is the end of the gay village, sooner or later. And somehow it will get approved. This sucks. We have so few spaces left. I'm sure any day now we're gonna see a proposal to demolish Woodys for a condo.
We have a Conservative provincial government, I would not be surprised if this gets a MZO because they hate everyone who lives in this area. What the City wants won't matter, the OLT or the province will override that. Either through ignorance or bigotry, this is gonna be the end of the Gay Village, short of a minor miracle.
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