Toronto 300 Front Street West | 156.05m | 49s | Tridel | Wallman Architects

Why in the world would ANYONE buy a unit in this building when just down the street you could get a place in cityplace apex/matrix for much less... and a much larger place at that. Not to mention better amenities, views, etc, etc.

Sure I understand that you get nicer light fixtures at 300 front (or in a 400 sqft unit, I should say "fixture").... but are those really worth $100,000?
 
Why do I feel like this building will be remembered as the tipping point. A symbol of a condo bubble gone mad. Developer greed and consumer ignorance.

Seriously, it can't possibly get worse than this. $300,000 for a 480sqft unit?? There is absolutely no way that anyone would pay even MORE for a unit this size. Therefore I think this building is a symbol that we have reached the top of the market. It's all gonna be downhill from here.

at $600/sqft, this is getting quite ridiculous. were these still the preview prices?
 
I would like to meet some of the people who bought a unit in this building and have a talk with them.

My first question would be WHYYY

Then again, I just saw someone at futureshop buying an HDMI cable for $100... so I guess there are plenty of suckers out there. But for real estate?
 
Not all the units are that bad. The "A" for 2- and 3-bedroom seem kinda odd. But the rest seem fine. The 1-bedroom ones are kinda weird though.
 
This is the current price now since 'official opening' of 300 Front

http://www.tridel.com/300front/prices.php

I went there this weekend. The launch prices are still the same as preview pricing for all the single bedroom units, and some of the 2 bedroom units went up $20k, but to be honest... I think you can still score the preview pricing.

It's a sign of the times, things are slowing. I've been getting condo 'incentives' and discounts in my mailbox regularly.
 
The GTA new homes price index for high-rise units hit $382,604 in June 2008. Generally the last four years we've had 8%-10% price increases yr/yr, but this past year we've been approaching 20% (7% in the first 6 months of 2008 alone) - overall it's a 50% increase in the last 4 1/2 years. The increases in the downtown core have usually been higher then the GTA average.

There are many reasons for this - general supply & demand (although the high-rise remaining inventory hit a record high of about 17,000 units recently). The main culprit for the increases in high-rise prices has been land availability and the rising cost of land - especially in the city core - there just aren't as many prime lots available for development and costs are rising. Even out in the 905 low-rise lot prices have risen significantly the last few years due in part to industry consolidation and government policies restricting land use (i.e. the greenbelt, places to grow, changes to the OMB that limit appeals with respect to urban boundary expansions and other land takings from other public agencies).

Other costs which are getting passed onto consumers are increasing costs of obtaining capital (credit crisis – situation should hopefully improve in coming months), rising construction and material costs, labour costs (that may start to come down as the market slows) and increasing approval delays (time is money & uncertainty increases risks & therefore costs for development proponents), as well as increasing taxes/fees (i.e. land transfer tax, rapidly increasing development charges, increasing section 37 requirements, increasing site plan approval requirements… etc) and other regulatory issues (i.e. mandatory residential sprinklers in high-rises starting in Sept 2009, Toronto green building standards, changes to the OBC… etc).
 
Scaled Model

snapped from outside Tridel Store on College last night

 

I'll try to step inside the logic prevailing on this page and explain why:

Since this is the only condo on the market in Toronto and buyers have no choice but to purchase units here, the market will decline because no reasonable person will buy these expensive units, signaling the end of the condo boom.

Am I close?
 
I'll try to step inside the logic prevailing on this page and explain why:

Since this is the only condo on the market in Toronto and buyers have no choice but to purchase units here, the market will decline because no reasonable person will buy these expensive units, signaling the end of the condo boom.

Am I close?

No one is saying this building will be single handedly responsible for a condo market crash. But it might just be a symbol of the state of the condo market in general.

And a free tip while I'm at it: Sarcasm is not a particularly effective way of making a point.
 
So Tridel has pushed this building into the lower-tier luxury segment with units around $600 PSF. Big deal. That just exempts the whole project from the pool of "reasonable investors," so comparing 300 Front to Cityplace is like comparing apples-to-underwhelming oranges. The fact of the matter is that you simply disagree that these units are worth over $600 psf (you're not alone), but does that really lend itself to doom and gloom forecasts of the entire condo market?

Nobody's complaining about the prices at Ãce Condos, and the new phases of Infinity are sure to be a steal. I can't even count the number of reasonably priced units on the market right now.
 
The GTA new homes price index for high-rise units hit $382,604 in June 2008. Generally the last four years we've had 8%-10% price increases yr/yr, but this past year we've been approaching 20% (7% in the first 6 months of 2008 alone) - overall it's a 50% increase in the last 4 1/2 years. The increases in the downtown core have usually been higher then the GTA average.

There are many reasons for this - general supply & demand (although the high-rise remaining inventory hit a record high of about 17,000 units recently). The main culprit for the increases in high-rise prices has been land availability and the rising cost of land - especially in the city core - there just aren't as many prime lots available for development and costs are rising. Even out in the 905 low-rise lot prices have risen significantly the last few years due in part to industry consolidation and government policies restricting land use (i.e. the greenbelt, places to grow, changes to the OMB that limit appeals with respect to urban boundary expansions and other land takings from other public agencies).

Other costs which are getting passed onto consumers are increasing costs of obtaining capital (credit crisis – situation should hopefully improve in coming months), rising construction and material costs, labour costs (that may start to come down as the market slows) and increasing approval delays (time is money & uncertainty increases risks & therefore costs for development proponents), as well as increasing taxes/fees (i.e. land transfer tax, rapidly increasing development charges, increasing section 37 requirements, increasing site plan approval requirements… etc) and other regulatory issues (i.e. mandatory residential sprinklers in high-rises starting in Sept 2009, Toronto green building standards, changes to the OBC… etc).

So why are these big builders putting up all these 30 or 40 storey buildings all over the city, wouldn't they be farther ahead to concentrate on a few 60 or 70 storey ones?
 
I love how developers (and many rich people) bitch about things related to gov't, taxes, etc. In reality, most of the developers I've met NEVER pay a penny in personal income taxes themselves. Some of the bigger companies' "top guns" rarely step foot in the GTA!

And I have yet to meet a developer that isn't living (relatively) like a king. Even Harry Stinson owns one of the largest homes in Hamilton. It's just typical whining and complaining, typical of the developer family compact.

If developers were truly not making any money--why do they continually launch bolder and bigger products? 'Tis a sham....
 

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