W. K. Lis
Superstar
I wish that the 2150 Lake Shore project schools' (plural) auditorium/cafeteria could be used as a dance/banquet hall (after COVID-19) on weekends. I can see problems with Ontario's over-regulated alcohol laws saying "NO!".
Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison
- Thread starter AHK
- Start date
I wish that the 2150 Lake Shore project schools' (plural) auditorium/cafeteria could be used as a dance/banquet hall (after COVID-19) on weekends. I can see problems with Ontario's over-regulated alcohol laws saying "NO!".
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
Goodness...that arch, on that pier building. That's intense.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Do you think mosques could be used as dance/banquet halls during weekends (which obviously excludes Fridays)? Islam's views on alcohol would say "NO!" as well.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
From link. The Palace Pier after being ravaged by fire in January 1963. Photo from the Toronto Star, Baldwin Collection, Toronto Public Library tspt 000344f.
Aerial view of the area surrounding the Palace Pier in 1958. The pier is in the bottom left-hand corner of the photo, on the west bank of the Humber River. The widened Lakeshore Road is to the north of the pier, the Gardiner Expressway to the north of it. Toronto Archives, S 0065, File 0047, Id. 0011.
The GO Station would be a placeholder too. From what we know, none of the buildings have more than a general massing model so far.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Hopefully, the roads shown are also only "placeholders". Should include streetcar right-of-ways (on the side within the project), raised bicycle lanes, and wide pedestrian walkways and sidewalks separated from the bicycles, automobiles, and streetcars with treed boulevards. No stop signs (yield signs and "shark's teeth"), but raised intersections and crossings.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
As long as the said placeholders don't look better than what we'll end up with...
67Cup
Active Member
I am not persuaded that the streetcar right of way needs to be separated from the pedestrian areas. I had the delightful experience of living for a number of months in a village near Montpellier, France, a lovely city which boasts a well used 58 km tramway. The trams are about the size of the double streetcars in the Toronto system. The Tram routes pass through the central plaza of the old city, the Place de la Comédie, or L’Oeuf, as it is better known. Nothing separates the pedestrian areas from the tram tracks in the plaza. There are a host of restaurants and cafes in La Place, with large patios, a carousel for the children and extensive open spaces. (They are not great restaurants, by the way, but the ambience is wonderful. For great eating look elsewhere in the city.) The trams pass through the area at the pace of a fast jog and pedestrians, even somewhat tipsy ones, seem to have no trouble avoiding them. I think the key may be that there is no vehicular traffic aside from necessary deliveries and services. Pedestrians and streetcars can coexist quite well, in my experience.
Humber Bay Shores will not feature the gorgeous mid rise stone buildings that surround L’Oeuf, nor the warm Mediterranean climate, but in my dreams I am sitting on the patio of a cafe in the newly developed Christie Lands, enjoying,say, a Blanquette de Veau, while both pedestrians and TTC streetcars pass through the plaza or whatever it is called.
Please excuse this blatant example of francophiliac nostalgia, but honestly, pedestrians and streetcars can easily coexist.
Humber Bay Shores will not feature the gorgeous mid rise stone buildings that surround L’Oeuf, nor the warm Mediterranean climate, but in my dreams I am sitting on the patio of a cafe in the newly developed Christie Lands, enjoying,say, a Blanquette de Veau, while both pedestrians and TTC streetcars pass through the plaza or whatever it is called.
Please excuse this blatant example of francophiliac nostalgia, but honestly, pedestrians and streetcars can easily coexist.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
I've seen the same sights of co-existing pedestrians and streetcars in the absence of automobiles in Czechia and Poland as well.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
As long as the automobile is not located near the streetcars and pedestrians. The automobiles should be directed to the underground garages, bypassing the plazas, and only allowing retail delivery trucks out of sight.
Northern Light
Superstar
Amsterdam also features trams interacting with pedestrians in pedestrian dominant/exclusive laneways..........
I do remember my being startled by it on my first visit there, but appreciative nonetheless.
I do remember my being startled by it on my first visit there, but appreciative nonetheless.
…and I've seen the same in a number of European countries too. Pedestrians and track-based street transit blend well there as pedestrians have grown up with it. They'll walk across the tracks as long as they gauge they can clear them before the tram — which typically will not slow down — reaches that spot. They don't walk along tracks with their backs to the direction the tram is coming from. I assume there are occasional accidents, but it must be very few the way that pedestrian and transit traffic normally flow together on those streets.
I wonder how long we'd take to get used to it here. I hope not forever. Traffic on King is slight enough now at times that it's become a street where people can cross more liberally than they were able to prior to the pilot. I'd love to see the stretch of Queen between Spadina and John go totally car-free sometime. It would be interesting to see how quickly transit could get through if pedestrians were no longer worrying about car traffic to weave through. To what degree would they be cognizant of getting out of the way of streetcars? (Many people would, some wouldn't. It takes a while to train some…)
This will be another place to test pedestrian and transit mix. People will cross the tracks here: will they do it carefully enough that transit doesn't normally have to crawl to avoid killing them?
Oh, and quite often the placeholders do look better, but sometimes they don't: you simply cannot tell at this stage. This area has been really nicely rendered in this case, so we need to be on our guard to keep First Capital's feet to the fire in terms of the expectations they have created. Don't be afraid to let First Cap know that you want the quality represented in the placeholders here to be realized in the final products!
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I wonder how long we'd take to get used to it here. I hope not forever. Traffic on King is slight enough now at times that it's become a street where people can cross more liberally than they were able to prior to the pilot. I'd love to see the stretch of Queen between Spadina and John go totally car-free sometime. It would be interesting to see how quickly transit could get through if pedestrians were no longer worrying about car traffic to weave through. To what degree would they be cognizant of getting out of the way of streetcars? (Many people would, some wouldn't. It takes a while to train some…)
This will be another place to test pedestrian and transit mix. People will cross the tracks here: will they do it carefully enough that transit doesn't normally have to crawl to avoid killing them?
Oh, and quite often the placeholders do look better, but sometimes they don't: you simply cannot tell at this stage. This area has been really nicely rendered in this case, so we need to be on our guard to keep First Capital's feet to the fire in terms of the expectations they have created. Don't be afraid to let First Cap know that you want the quality represented in the placeholders here to be realized in the final products!
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Northern Light
Superstar
Draft Secondary Plan to the next Planning and Housing Ctte on September 22nd.
Report here:
Draft Secondary Plan here:
Zoning By-law here:
Urban Design and Streetscape Guidelines here:
Report here:
Draft Secondary Plan here:
Zoning By-law here:
Urban Design and Streetscape Guidelines here:
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Site plan image, from above PDF.
Also from the PDF...
Also from the PDF...
ADRM
Senior Member
Lots of ogle-worthy posts from an A&M principal (I believe these are all still conceptual and that it hasn’t been confirmed whether they’ll actually design any of the buildings, but fun to see nonetheless).