Toronto 2150 Lake Shore | 215.75m | 67s | First Capital | Allies and Morrison

[Keyz]

December 24th, 2017

 

[Torontite]

Thinking about how a community gathering place could be created with a transit hub, school/community centre, offices and shops and restaurants.. I came across this design for a town centre in the Philippines which really encourages and invites people to come in and stay with its pedestrian/walking focus. Love it.

http://www.philstar.com/modern-living/2017/10/21/1750772/landscapes-add-value

"The project, completed in 2016, has a green spine designed by landscape architect Eric Estonido of the ASEA Design Group. His design is an example of what’s called biophilic design, providing a balance of hard and soft materials where “nature is physically within reach, and is intertwined with the retail experience."

 

[iainmcampbell]

This site has so much potential! I've done a little fantasy map of how the site could be divided into blocks and accommodate a GO station and the Waterfront LRT.

The LRT would run in a dedicated right-of-way from the tunnel under the Gardiner until the Lake Shore and Silver Moon, which would get the traffic light that's currently one block over. This way it can avoid two intersections at Lake Shore and connect with the GO station, maintaining all current stops without increasing running time.

The new road over the GO station (probably under, actually) would incorporate pedestrian and cyclist paths and be integrated into the station: the main station entrance would be level with the road, and the LRT line would cross it at grade. The 'Christie Plaza' would be a public plaza at the main station entrance, ideally surrounded on the east and south sides by retail. The LRT stop would be located on the north side of the plaza. There would be a second GO station entrance at Park Lawn, of course, perhaps under the overpass like the Bloor GO station.

The 66 bus would be routed along this new road to meet up with the Waterfront LRT at Park Lawn GO. There would be a bus-only southbound left turn lane and advance green at Legion Rd and Park Lawn. It would be desirable to route the 66 along the LRT right-of-way through the Christie site.

There are also a ton of possibilities for cyclist and pedestrian connections along both sides of the rail corridor, connecting Humber Bay Shores to Grand Avenue and Manchester parks, the proposed Legion Rd extension, and the developments near Mimico GO.

 

[WislaHD]

Thanks for posting that. Reminded me to repost something I posted in another thread a few weeks ago (I think maybe transit fantasy thread?) about an alignment of the Relief Line subway going through Humber Bay Shores and then along The Queensway.

Any talk of the western leg heading to South Etobicoke is always presented as either on the Queensway or on Lake Shore. I figured, with the Kraft Bakery site, what is stopping it from both?

 

[interchange42]

Pretty impressive @iainmcampbell. You've done a great job with the with street pattern in terms of turning T-intersections into full ones, and there are generally good ideas regarding transit, though I'd like to get the 66A through the Humber Loop tunnel too to help solve some service issues in the area. Will try to find the in the near future to propose a variation of what you've put forward.

@WislaHD — I'm not big on talking up a Relief Line alignment in this area. That's so far into the realm of the impossible that it should stay in the Transit Fantasy thread please: it'll never happen.

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[DopeyFish]

The only way a subway ever comes to south etobicoke is if the Queen subway is restarted which won't happen

A big reason for this is the Lakeshore GO

 

[Amare]

This site has so much potential! I've done a little fantasy map of how the site could be divided into blocks and accommodate a GO station and the Waterfront LRT.

View attachment 131797

I actually like your map a lot. It's well thought out, addresses many of the current issues that plague the area today, and optimizes the amount of land that could be used for appropriate developments. It's definitely better than anything the city could come up with.

If there's any kind of public consultations coming up, this should definitely be submitted so it could give First Capital some more ideas.

 

[toaster29]

The only problem with the map is that the current busiest stop for the 66B Northbound is at the north/east side of Lake Shore at Park Lawn, heading north to Old Mill. You would make their trip much longer

 

[drum118]

Just leave the buses on Park Lawn as is with riders crossing at the light.

You still need tracks on Lake Shore to the Humber Loop since some cars will be short turning there in the first place.

If a GO Station gets place there, expect to see another sets of lights at the bridge for it.

 

[intrepid4968]

@interchange42 - so the 66A wouldn’t end at the Humber Loop, instead it'd continue through the tunnel to serve the neighbourhood and perhaps end at Park Lawn GO?

@Amare thanks! if anyone wants to take this to a consultation they're welcome to. It does seem like pre-design community consultations are becoming more common for large sites like this one (ie Galleria Mall, Dundas West big box plaza).

@toaster29 - ah ok, good to know. I don't have any experience with the 66 (A or B), so thank you for filling me in!

@drum118 - ok, so the 66B should definitely stay on Park Lawn and bus riders would access the GO station from there. Lights at the bridge would be very close to the Gardiner exit/Legion Rd intersection though. also rule out having a light at the intersection directly south of the rail corridor.

I'm not sure I understand you about streetcar tracks on Lake Shore: would they be for the eastbound 501 from Long Branch, short turning at the Humber Loop? couldn't that service access the loop via the new right of way, or am I missing something?

also just had the thought that it might be a good idea to build a streetcar loop at the Park Lawn GO station, so streetcars from downtown could short turn there instead of Humber Loop. But I think I read about a proposed loop on the west side of Mimico Creek, in which case no point.

 

[interchange42]

Hey @intrepid4968, I think the planned loop west of the Mimico Creek may be a thing of the past: it looks like the plan now is to move the loop to the new GO station. That's also where the 66A should end too: you, it should travel through the Humber Loop tunnel, and provide some of the service n the Humber Bay Shores area. As it grows, the area will need more and more frequent transit options, and it would make sense to better connect the area south of the Gardiner with the Sobey's Plaza on the Queensway… and as Humber Bay Shores itself becomes more of a draw (which a properly planned First Capital development should accomplish), then another bus route into it will be a help.

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[intrepid4968]

yeah, a loop at the new GO station makes more sense to me too.

Here's an updated graphic. The 66A stays on Park Lawn, the 66B comes down through the streetcar tunnel, and I've added some potential trail connections. The trail bridge over Park Lawn beside the rail overpass would be basically like the Railpath at Bloor GO: level with the GO station, with bike parking and direct platform access. Then a gentle slope down to the plaza.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

yeah, a loop at the new GO station makes more sense to me too.

Here's an updated graphic. The 66A stays on Park Lawn, the 66B comes down through the streetcar tunnel, and I've added some potential trail connections. The trail bridge over Park Lawn beside the rail overpass would be basically like the Railpath at Bloor GO: level with the GO station, with bike parking and direct platform access. Then a gentle slope down to the plaza.

View attachment 131990

I've also floated the idea of a streetcar along Queensway west from Humber Loop in the past. A Park Lawn station could absolutely be the east terminus instead.

 

[intrepid4968]

If there ever was a streetcar along the Queensway, absolutely a Park Lawn station could be the east terminus, especially if the Queen streetcar used it instead of the Humber Loop as a western terminus as well. The question is would it access the loop via Park Lawn, or by doubling back after going through the existing tunnel under the Gardiner?

I don't see a Queensway streetcar anytime soon though: daily ridership on the 80 Queensway was 2200 in 2016 (link). There is development activity beginning to happen along the Queensway though, so there may be more of a case in the future.

 

[WislaHD]

If there ever was a streetcar along the Queensway, absolutely a Park Lawn station could be the east terminus, especially if the Queen streetcar used it instead of the Humber Loop as a western terminus as well. The question is would it access the loop via Park Lawn, or by doubling back after going through the existing tunnel under the Gardiner?

I don't see a Queensway streetcar anytime soon though: daily ridership on the 80 Queensway was 2200 in 2016 (link). There is development activity beginning to happen along the Queensway though, so there may be more of a case in the future.

As discussed in other times this comes up, one has to wonder if the situation on Queensway is a chicken-or-egg scenario. Would ridership increase if there was more frequent service?