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Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

The media is awash right now with articles about the Olympics being a toxic hot potato, and all the reasons why. Few people are willing to go on the record saying they think the Olympics are good for cities or economies.

If Toronto puts in a bid now, we'll get lots of international media attention all right - for being complete dumbasses.
 
I never said it was OK to displace slums either way.

Again, the recent history of the Summer Olympics involves displacing neighbourhoods. Not just in horribly corrupt countries but also in the UK. There are people in London who can tell you all about it and I have linked to their info. This happens because what is in the bid is not what actually happens during the 7-year preparation period. That is possible because of the extra-legal situation created by the host city contract. I've linked to that info too. Anyone who thinks I'm making this up can look at the links (I think it's very telling that they won't). The recent Olympics have never just made do with whatever vacant land happens to be available at the time, and there is no reason to expect that to happen in Toronto. Olympic bids - and most mega-event bids - nearly always originate with the development and construction industries, and it's so they can get their hands on land cheaper and easier than usual. Sign the books out of the library and read up on it - the info is all there.

I think the above paragraph should be pretty easy to follow for anyone with normally functioning cognitive ability.
I think someone needs an extra big hug today!

You still have yet to give a single example of a Toronto community that would reasonably be at risk in an Olympics bid. It might, you know, help your argument.
 
You're assuming "prioritizing Toronto" necessarily means accepting large amounts of waste to get some indirect benefits. Many people clearly don't accept that view at all. Some people think that the benefits aren't worth the waste. It's a jump of logic to extend from that that they don't prioritize Toronto.

Wrong. I'll clarify: Prioritizing Toronto over other jurisdictions means accepting injection funding from the province and the feds, even if it means some of the earmarked spending is arguably 'wasteful' vis a vis where it may or may not have been spent outside the jurisdiction... and no, i'm not going to reject infrastructure/revitalization funding just because it comes along with a new stadium or a second velodrome!

Academic consensus has long been that mega sporting events are highly unlikely to yield net benefits to hosts.

No, this is just lazy. There is absolutely zero consensus... and you simply cannot make blanket statements, the scenarios being so different from one host city to another. Even the blurb you quote below is flawed (my comments in blue):

Here is a quote from the National Bureau of Economic Research: "More rigorous studies are skeptical of the net economic benefits of hosting mega-events; see e.g., Baade and Matheson (2002) and Owen (2005). The costs of holding such events seem con- siderable. Further, any enduring benefits derive mostly from infrastructure investments that the host city could choose to make independently of the games (1.). Much of the spending on the event by local citizens is a substitute from a different leisure activity or consumption good, rather than true additional spending (2) [e.g., Siegfried and Zimbalist (2000) and Coates and Humphreys (2003)]. Moreover, the projects associated with the games typically seem to be white elephants, such as poorly-used sporting facilities associated with idiosyncratic Olympic sports, or hotels and trans- portation infrastructure built to accommodate a one-time peak demand of just three weeks.(3.)
Some have argued that hosting sporting events yields a non-pecuniary “feel good” benefit to local citizens who are filled with civic pride following a mega-event, even if they do not attend [e.g. Rappaport and Wilkerson (2001), Carlino and Coulson (2004), or Maennig and du Plessis (2007)]. However, the very existence of this intangible spillover is uncertain, let alone its magnitude. (4) It seems safe to say that a majority of the profession considers it unlikely that these benefits justify the large public expenditures involved in hosting such events [e.g. Coates, Humphreys, and Zimbalist (2006) and Coates (2007)]. "

1. As has already been argued it is such a massive error in thinking to assume (or take as fact in this case) that a city like Toronto would retain the infrastructure/revitalization funding promised for hosting a games if it didn't host the games. There are many many political reasons why this isn't so. In fact this assumption is strictly within the realm of fantasy. Part of the allure of hosting is the prospect of committed government funding with firm timelines, which in reality is a very rare scenario.

2. This is also an assumption. Locals who stay and spend in the city during an olympics short term (and thereafter long term) might well have opted to travel outside of the city/region instead, as they often do. It is never a given that entertainment and vacation spending by locals will remain in the area. In fact retaining locals can represent a massive boon to the local economy and tourism industry.

3. Again, this is just too broad to be taken seriously. Yes, white elephants get built (no question) but so do long-stalled, badly-needed infrastructure/revitalization projects. As with many issues surrounding an olympics the experience varies enormously from host city to host city, according to how the games are organized and what the city's specific objectives are.

4. You cannot unilaterally decide to overlook something because it's intangible. These intangibles are a big part of hosting, they are often a big part of what cities want to achieve.


I will defer to the actual academics over you.

... and you should, but you are doing yourself a disservice in cherry picking strictly negative points of view. There is a wealth of info' out there and in my experience it is all over the map. Read for some balance. The experience with some cities/games has been bad, no question, but many cities have achieved what they set out to achieve in hosting.


Longitudinally, there's no Olympic boom evidence. This can be seen in both host and non host cities.


Barcelona, for one:

Despite a recession that lasted until the mid-1990s, Barcelona was able to grow, building on its Olympic platform. The city used the Games to implement an imaginative, wide-ranging urban renewal plan that transformed its decaying industrial fabric into the gorgeous seaside city so beloved of British (and other) tourists.

Barcelona's airport handled 2.9 million passengers in 1991; this year that figure had risen to 21 million. Tourism, which accounted for less than 2 per cent of the city's pre-Olympic GDP, is now worth 12.5 per cent, with the increase in hotel beds dictated by the Games generating 12,500 new jobs.

Barcelona estimated it had built 50 years' worth of infrastructure over eight years, investing $8bn (£5bn) in a ring road, a new airport and telecommunications system and an improved sewage system. The filthy harbour and port area were transformed by a $2.4bn waterfront development, with the two tallest towers in Spain, one a luxurious hotel, the other an office building.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-2024-olympic-bid.18162/page-84

It's not even like the Olympics are such huge transit problems. For our 2008 bid, 85% of athletes (and an even higher percent of spectators) were expected to compete in the Waterfront venues near the Athlete Village. The induced transit impact in usually isn't very significant compared to the millions of daily rush hour commuters most cities deal with. There are some local transit issues around specific venues, but the overall regional travel demand impacts aren't typically huge.

The city has to be able to keep the city moving while the olympics are here. This doesn't just mean moving tourists, athletes and media but the entire city has to function while this is happening. Toronto is already gridlocked without the games. This will have to mean some key infrastructure improvements, improvements that are already long-stalled and past-due in the first place.
 
Torontoist did a nice write up on all our previous failed Olympic bids. The most interesting part for me is the list of infrastructure projects that were included in the 2008 bid. I'm not arguing for or against the Olympics, however most of these projects have since been built or are under construction, it's just that it took a few years longer to happen. The QQ East extension is not urgent but it will happen in conjunction with the Gardiner East hybrid work. The Don River project has political support and will likely get funding in the near future, and it's probably a good thing that this was not rushed for the Olympics. However the LRT is still going nowhere, and the QQ West & Front Street extensions will probably never ever happen.

  • Upgrades to Union Station, including a second subway platform
  • Construction of Fort York Boulevard (with a suggested alternative name of Nelson Mandela Way)
  • Extension of Queens Quay west to Ontario Place, and east to the Port Lands
  • Extension of Front West to the west
  • Underpass for Simcoe Street south of Front Street
  • Grade separation for Strachan Avenue
  • Elimination of the Dufferin Street jog
  • LRT service on Queens Quay East
  • Temporary GO station at Cherry Street
  • Soil remediation and realignment of the Don River in the Port Lands
The role of waterfront redevelopment made some observers wonder if the city wasn’t so much going for the Olympics as a spectacle as much as a lever to finally fix the age-old problem. The Waterfront Revitalization Task Force headed by Robert Fung ran concurrently with the major stages of the bid. When all three levels of government agreed to fund the games, they also promised to back waterfront renewal regardless of TO-Bid’s success. This ultimately led to what some might argue is the 2008 bid’s permanent legacy: Waterfront Toronto.

Had we won, an Olympic stadium, aquatics centre, and athletes’ village would have risen in the Port Lands, while the media would have been housed in the West Don Lands. Most events would have clustered into three hubs termed as “rings”: Exhibition Place/Ontario Place, downtown, and the Port Lands.

http://torontoist.com/2015/07/bidding-for-the-summer-olympics/
 
I think someone needs an extra big hug today!

You still have yet to give a single example of a Toronto community that would reasonably be at risk in an Olympics bid. It might, you know, help your argument.

Ooooh....maybe Liberty Village could get a do-over!
 
Wrong. I'll clarify: Prioritizing Toronto over other jurisdictions means accepting injection funding from the province and the feds, even if it means some of the earmarked spending is arguably 'wasteful' vis a vis where it may or may not have been spent outside the jurisdiction... and no, i'm not going to reject infrastructure/revitalization funding just because it comes along with a new stadium or a second velodrome!

You're dodging the entire criticism of the Olympics, which is that the benefits AREN'T worth the waste. They may be to you, and whoop-de-do, but the entire critique of the Olympics is that they're not.

So, no, it's not a matter of you 'prioritizing' Toronto and critics not 'prioritizing' Toronto. There's a departure of opinion over how to prioritize Toronto.

Frankly this would be easier if you could at least drop lazy rhetorical strategies like positioning your personal opinions as a the objective "prioritization" of Toronto. We're all trying to prioritize Toronto, ok?
No, this is just lazy. There is absolutely zero consensus... and you simply cannot make blanket statements, the scenarios being so different from one host city to another. Even the blurb you quote below is flawed (my comments in blue):
Again, the actual academics who surveyed the actual academic literature concluded that the "majority of the profession" think the Games' costs outweigh their benefits. That's a consensus. So at this point it's you, who says there is no consensus, versus the academics who say there is. You could have cited dissident academic voices but you didn't.
Moreover, you seem to have an issue with probabilistic conclusions. The academic consensus that the Olympic Games are "unlikely" to deliver more benefits than costs isn't at all weakened, as you seem to think it is, by an observation that one host city may have eked more benefits than it cost. The argument that most people don't win the lottery isn't weakened by the premise that Jane did.
1. As has already been argued it is such a massive error in thinking to assume (or take as fact in this case) that a city like Toronto would retain the infrastructure/revitalization funding promised for hosting a games if it didn't host the games. There are many many political reasons why this isn't so. In fact this assumption is strictly within the realm of fantasy. Part of the allure of hosting is the prospect of committed government funding with firm timelines, which in reality is a very rare scenario.
Look at the list Salsa posted right after your comment. Toronto got most of what was tied to our 2008 bid, so it's hardly a "fantasy" as you say. Out of 10 projects, 6 were completed regardless. Of the remaining 4 projects, only 2 are really missing. The temporary Cherry Station definitionally wouldn't have been long term infrastructure, and the Front Street West extension was cancelled because City Council decided it wasn't appropriate. So, ya know, maybe you want to revise just how much that assumption is "strictly within the realm of fantasy."
2. This is also an assumption. Locals who stay and spend in the city during an olympics short term (and thereafter long term) might well have opted to travel outside of the city/region instead, as they often do. It is never a given that entertainment and vacation spending by locals will remain in the area. In fact retaining locals can represent a massive boon to the local economy and tourism industry.
The existence of a substation effect is assumed, but fairly easy to support from basic logic. For your criticism to be valid that there is no substitution effect, due the Olympics "retaining" locals, you'd have to assume that all locals who attend the games are substituting the Olympics for goods & services that would have been consumed elsewhere. That just seems highly unlikely.
The exact magnitude of the substitution effect is obviously unclear and difficult to quantify. You're right in that locals may be substituting the Olympics for goods/services outside the region.
Nonetheless, the reason economists point out the substitution effect (+crowding out effect) is because benefits are usually stated incrementally (e.g. "during the Games, locals spent 20% more"), which is misleading since a part of that gross increase is likely to substituted from something else.
3. Again, this is just too broad to be taken seriously. Yes, white elephants get built (no question) but so do long-stalled, badly-needed infrastructure/revitalization projects. As with many issues surrounding an olympics the experience varies enormously from host city to host city, according to how the games are organized and what the city's specific objectives are.
Again, I don't understand why you seem to think specific examples disprove a general conclusion. It could be true that some cities do get useful bits of infrastructure (e.g. the Canada Line) while also being true that the mega-events as a whole are dragged down by useless projects.
4. You cannot unilaterally decide to overlook something because it's intangible. These intangibles are a big part of hosting, they are often a big part of what cities want to achieve.
The paper in question didn't do that. The passage in question simply stated that "however, the very existence of this intangible spillover is uncertain, let alone it's magnitude." The issue isn't that intangibles should be overlooked, the issue is that it's not clear at all these events produce the intangibles they're intended to.
... and you should, but you are doing yourself a disservice in cherry picking strictly negative points of view. There is a wealth of info' out there and in my experience it is all over the map. Read for some balance. The experience with some cities/games has been bad, no question, but many cities have achieved what they set out to achieve in hosting.
I spent the time to actually source and justify my opinions with academic research. If you have contradictory research you're more than welcome to post it here, but you haven't.

This question is much, much more settled than you are presenting.
.Barcelona, for one:

Again, simply showing that stuff happened during/after an event and imputing causality is extremely unsound reasoning. It's literally the BearTax Argument. Then again, Olympic boosters could also just as easily be summed up by Marge vs. the Monorail, a timeless parable of wooly dreams of municipal grandeur overwhelming reasoning. I could just imagine the IOC standing up and signing that "I've sold Olympics to London, Beijing and Athens and by golly put them on the map."
The city has to be able to keep the city moving while the olympics are here. This doesn't just mean moving tourists, athletes and media but the entire city has to function while this is happening. Toronto is already gridlocked without the games. This will have to mean some key infrastructure improvements, improvements that are already long-stalled and past-due in the first place.
The City has to move orders of magnitude more people each and every weekday than anything caused by the Olympics. Look at our 2008 bid. It wasn't imagining some kind of massive revamp of regional infrastructure; we were talking about a lightly used LRT along QQE, a temporary station at Cherry, some road works in the Olympic zones and Union Renovations. Not nothing but we're really not talking about "key infrastructure improvements," save Union (which happened, because it was "key" and our politicians aren't as useless as you think).
 
Interesting to note that the Olympics poll has moved basically into a dead heat, with 48% in favour, 46% opposed and 7% undecided.
 
So the winter Olympics are going to Beijing which has no snow. The Olympics have become a joke like the World Cup and are being held in totally unsuitable locations (Sochi and Beijing for the Winter Olympics, Russia and Qatar for the World Cup). Until the Olympics are reduced in cost to the point where they cost no more than the Toronto Pan Am Games, no one will want them.
 
Interesting to note that the Olympics poll has moved basically into a dead heat, with 48% in favour, 46% opposed and 7% undecided.

As per the recent Toronto Life survey of commuters at Kennedy station re: the SSE, it is apparent that the average person in Toronto is functionally innumerate and does not comprehend the numbers that are thrown around for these projects. It doesn't help when you have a provincial government that does things like roll out a $50 billion transit plan without any context as to just how much money $50 billion actually is. Now they see that the Olympics will cost "a few billion" or some wild estimate and think it's not really a lot of money, so it's worth it! We deserve it, after all.
 
As per the recent Toronto Life survey of commuters at Kennedy station re: the SSE, it is apparent that the average person in Toronto is functionally innumerate and does not comprehend the numbers that are thrown around for these projects. It doesn't help when you have a provincial government that does things like roll out a $50 billion transit plan without any context as to just how much money $50 billion actually is. Now they see that the Olympics will cost "a few billion" or some wild estimate and think it's not really a lot of money.
Look, if Rob Ford can save ONE BILLION DOLLARS all on his own, then it will be easy for Ontario and the feds to come up with the other 49. What is this, rocket surgery?
 
So the winter Olympics are going to Beijing which has no snow. The Olympics have become a joke like the World Cup and are being held in totally unsuitable locations (Sochi and Beijing for the Winter Olympics, Russia and Qatar for the World Cup). Until the Olympics are reduced in cost to the point where they cost no more than the Toronto Pan Am Games, no one will want them.
Beijing's climate is fairly similar to Toronto, but a few degrees warmer and with even wilder temperature swings. In January the average high is 2 and average low is -8. It snows there. Of course, the criticism of relying on man made snow for the alpine events is valid. But that was a problem in Vancouver too.
 

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