Toronto 2024 Olympic Bid (Dead)

[Tewder]

I'm not really surprised that Bay Street is against this. If ever there is a place in Toronto where there is a lack of imagination, inspiration, vision or concern for this city it's that stretch of accountants, bankers, insurance agents and traders. Let's be clear, they don't value anything but the return of a safe net profit, they are not concerned with city building, urban development or long term growth and improvements, it's all about the next financial quarter baby!... and really it's just the downtown version of the suburban attitude that 'gravy man' Ford pandered to for so long. Can we ever get beyond it? Toronto needs to.

 

[animatronic]

I'm not really surprised that Bay Street is against this. If ever there is a place in Toronto where there is a lack of imagination, inspiration, vision or concern for this city it's that stretch of accountants, bankers, insurance agents and traders. Let's be clear, they don't value anything but the return of a safe net profit, they are not concerned with city building, urban development or long term growth and improvements, it's all about the next financial quarter baby!... and really it's just the downtown version of the suburban attitude that 'gravy man' Ford pandered to for so long. Can we ever get beyond it? Toronto needs to.

This is what happens when people read a headline and don't bother to read the article.

 

[Tewder]

Oh stop. In the words of the director of operations himself: '“It’s not the same argument as 1996,” Wilson said. “We’ve got 20 more years of proof that the Olympics don’t make sense. This is a business deal that’s a bad deal for the cities.”' http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/08/28/this-time-bay-st-joins-torontos-anti-olympics-team.html

It's an incredibly self-serving, defeatist and protectionist point of view. I mean, there are next to zero government-supported and funded programs or projects I can think of that have a 100% mandate to make a profit. Now all of a sudden profitability is the ultimate requirement for government/tax spending? No. The Bay Street crowd just don't want government spending and the 'bread not circuses' crowd just don't want spending to go anywhere other than on social programs... hence the odd 'one tent' bedfellows.

 

[diminutive]

It's an incredibly self-serving, defeatist and protectionist point of view. I mean, there are next to zero government-supported and funded programs or projects I can think of that have a 100% mandate to make a profit. Now all of a sudden profitability is the ultimate requirement for government/tax spending? No. The Bay Street crowd just don't want government spending and the 'bread not circuses' crowd just don't want spending to go anywhere other than on social programs... hence the odd 'one tent' bedfellows.

That quote doesn't mention profitability, it's just a general statement that hosting the games are a 'bad deal for cities." Consider the following line, "The group argues that the costs will outweigh the benefits to the city, onerous contracts will leave taxpayers on the hook for any overruns, and the process is being held behind closed doors."

The group isn't making some narrow appeal to profit, they're saying that the benefits don't outweigh the costs. And yea, almost all government programs are expected to deliver net-benefits to society.

You keep suggesting that anti-Olympic voices are somehow blind to all of these intangible effects (increased tourism! more infrastructure! VISION!). In fact, most opponents believe (based on actual empirical evidence and academic review) that those benefits are nowhere near large enough to outweigh the costs.

Fine, you can disagree (and please provide evidence), but nobody's approaching this like some kind of unimaginative bean counter who can't see beyond a profit/loss statement. It's getting tiring to deal with your constant implications that only supporters of the Games are capable of having a 'vision' for Toronto. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them small-thinking boors.

 

[Tewder]

Diminutive, the number one mandate in business is to make a profit. It's all about the bottom line... and in some cases it's not just about making a profit or not, but not making enough of one. A government mandate is far broader. Sometimes services and things get delivered at a loss. Sometimes a government needs to think, plan and invest long term, which again is not like the business model which typically only looks to the next quarter, for nothing less than a bigger return over the previous one. The director of operations that I quoted distills his perspective of the games down to a 'business deal'. We know it's far bigger than this, clearly... and it's incredibly blinkered and limiting to view it as such.

If this were simply a 'business deal' I'd back out of the process fast because we'd be incapable. Bay Street is mainly bank buildings for a reason, it's safe. We do not have the robust private enterprise resources and ingenuity that they can draw on in LA or Atlanta.

 

[animatronic]

Diminutive, the number one mandate in business is to make a profit. It's all about the bottom line... and in some cases it's not just about making a profit or not, but not making enough of one. A government mandate is far broader. Sometimes services and things get delivered at a loss. Sometimes a government needs to think, plan and invest long term, which again is not like the business model which typically only looks to the next quarter, for nothing less than a bigger return over the previous one. The director of operations that I quoted distills his perspective of the games down to a 'business deal'. We know it's far bigger than this, clearly... and it's incredibly blinkered and limiting to view it as such.

If this were simply a 'business deal' I'd back out of the process fast because we'd be incapable. Bay Street is mainly bank buildings for a reason, it's safe. We do not have the robust private enterprise resources and ingenuity that they can draw on in LA or Atlanta.

Thanks for the Grade 6 civics lesson. Maybe don't get all your business knowledge from reruns of Wall St. and Family Ties.

Why can't you wrap your head around the fact that the host and the IOC enter into a business deal (which would be the biggest deal in Toronto's history), and that cities have an obligation to only enter into business deals that are in the best interests of their citizens?

 

[TOperson]

Just to add: There are lots of attractive, functional cities that have never hosted an Olympics or any similar large-scale events. The Olympics are totally unnecessary from a city-building point of view.

 

[Euphoria]

Okay, sorry to do this, but I want to say something about hosting the Olympics. I still remember Pearson Airport being decked out in the Olympic logos when MONTREAL hosted the Games in '76. I remember the Queen's address to the crowds broadcast live -- yes, live TV then was still 'the shit'. The country was still riding high from the Centennial projects of '67, the highlight of which of was Montreal's Grand Exposition, probable the greatest World's Fair ever held. Drapeau had been on Ed Sullivan because of the genius of using the earth removed to create subway lines to create ISLANDS with pavillions. WTF! Things like this had never been done. They did the first 'Big Dig', burying their expressway long before Boston. For a while, in the days of McLuhan, Canada's '72 defeat of the Soviets in hockey, Montreal and Canada were just about the coolest places. The country was dreaming big. I think this attitude is evident in cities like Toronto with the construction of the CN Tower (then the tallest freestanding man-made structure in the world), Crombie Park (St. Lawrence Neighbourhood), and Skydome (then the world's only stadium with a retractable roof). We wanted to do something cutting edge and spectacular. Ontario Place, the Science Centre, and a handful of similar projects came out of this period. We've had a few good ones since then: the AGO and ROM makeovers were probably the biggest achievements in the city, also some of the work along the water and the 'Two Kings' application of Jane Jacobs' ideas about mixing uses. I'm just saying that the greatest works that have come out of this city, including the work of Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, The Painters 11, The Group of Seven, and many other artists, came out of being unafraid to make a bold creative statement. Are we saying we can't manage to pull off THE international celebration of sport, The Olympics? C'mon, let's use our ingenuity to create an incredible Olympics that changes the city for the better, and find the way to do it within a reasonable budget. If we can't do it or shy away from trying, I think that says more about how we stack up against other cities that have pulled off successful Olympics than you think. Let's rise to the challenge.

 

[animatronic]

Okay, sorry to do this, but I want to say something about hosting the Olympics. I still remember Pearson Airport being decked out in the Olympic logos when MONTREAL hosted the Games in '76. I remember the Queen's address to the crowds broadcast live -- yes, live TV then was still 'the shit'. The country was still riding high from the Centennial projects of '67, the highlight of which of was Montreal's Grand Exposition, probable the greatest World's Fair ever held. Drapeau had been on Ed Sullivan because of the genius of using the earth removed to create subway lines to create ISLANDS with pavillions. WTF! Things like this had never been done. They did the first 'Big Dig', burying their expressway long before Boston. For a while, in the days of McLuhan, Canada's '72 defeat of the Soviets in hockey, Montreal and Canada were just about the coolest places. The country was dreaming big. I think this attitude is evident in cities like Toronto with the construction of the CN Tower (then the tallest freestanding man-made structure in the world), Crombie Park (St. Lawrence Neighbourhood), and Skydome (then the world's only stadium with a retractable roof). We wanted to do something cutting edge and spectacular. Ontario Place, the Science Centre, and a handful of similar projects came out of this period. We've had a few good ones since then: the AGO and ROM makeovers were probably the biggest achievements in the city, also some of the work along the water and the 'Two Kings' application of Jane Jacobs' ideas about mixing uses. I'm just saying that the greatest works that have come out of this city, including the work of Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, The Painters 11, The Group of Seven, and many other artists, came out of being unafraid to make a bold creative statement. Are we saying we can't manage to pull off THE international celebration of sport, The Olympics? C'mon, let's use our ingenuity to create an incredible Olympics that changes the city for the better, and find the way to do it within a reasonable budget. If we can't do it or shy away from trying, I think that says more about how we stack up against other cities that have pulled off successful Olympics than you think. Let's rise to the challenge.

Nostalgia is

Okay, sorry to do this, but I want to say something about hosting the Olympics. I still remember Pearson Airport being decked out in the Olympic logos when MONTREAL hosted the Games in '76. I remember the Queen's address to the crowds broadcast live -- yes, live TV then was still 'the shit'. The country was still riding high from the Centennial projects of '67, the highlight of which of was Montreal's Grand Exposition, probable the greatest World's Fair ever held. Drapeau had been on Ed Sullivan because of the genius of using the earth removed to create subway lines to create ISLANDS with pavillions. WTF! Things like this had never been done. They did the first 'Big Dig', burying their expressway long before Boston. For a while, in the days of McLuhan, Canada's '72 defeat of the Soviets in hockey, Montreal and Canada were just about the coolest places. The country was dreaming big. I think this attitude is evident in cities like Toronto with the construction of the CN Tower (then the tallest freestanding man-made structure in the world), Crombie Park (St. Lawrence Neighbourhood), and Skydome (then the world's only stadium with a retractable roof). We wanted to do something cutting edge and spectacular. Ontario Place, the Science Centre, and a handful of similar projects came out of this period. We've had a few good ones since then: the AGO and ROM makeovers were probably the biggest achievements in the city, also some of the work along the water and the 'Two Kings' application of Jane Jacobs' ideas about mixing uses. I'm just saying that the greatest works that have come out of this city, including the work of Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, The Painters 11, The Group of Seven, and many other artists, came out of being unafraid to make a bold creative statement. Are we saying we can't manage to pull off THE international celebration of sport, The Olympics? C'mon, let's use our ingenuity to create an incredible Olympics that changes the city for the better, and find the way to do it within a reasonable budget. If we can't do it or shy away from trying, I think that says more about how we stack up against other cities that have pulled off successful Olympics than you think. Let's rise to the challenge.

Truly the 76 Olympics was a civilizarion-altering event. Don't forget that it also led to the eradication of smallpox, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the original theatrical release of Star Wars at the University Theatre.

 

[Tewder]

Thanks for the Grade 6 civics lesson. Maybe don't get all your business knowledge from reruns of Wall St. and Family Ties.

Yeah, well why complicate things, right? There's a serious lack of basic reading comprehension skills on the anti-games side so an 'Idiot's Guide' approach here is fitting.

Why can't you wrap your head around the fact that the host and the IOC enter into a business deal (which would be the biggest deal in Toronto's history), and that cities have an obligation to only enter into business deals that are in the best interests of their citizens?

Why can't you wrap your head around the fact that the government enters business deals all the time. The government doesn't assess these deals based on the bottom line alone. The 'best interests of their citizens' may have nothing to do with profit at all. Maybe another civics 101 course is due for you?

Look, I understand that high order thinking isn't the strong suit of the anti-games crowd. It takes vision for this. You can't have vision when you're too focused on counting beans. It's that whole forest for the trees thing...

 

[animatronic]

Yeah, well why complicate things, right? There's a serious lack of basic reading comprehension skills on the anti-games side so an 'Idiot's Guide' approach here is fitting.



Why can't you wrap your head around the fact that the government enters business deals all the time. The government doesn't assess these deals based on the bottom line alone. The 'best interests of their citizens' may have nothing to do with profit at all. Maybe another civics 101 course is due for you?

Look, I understand that high order thinking isn't the strong suit of the anti-games crowd. It takes vision for this. You can't have vision when you're too focused on counting beans. It's that whole forest for the trees thing...

The only person suggesting that a business case is just financial is you. If you want to argue with yourself go crazy.

 

[Euphoria]

There's a business case against holding the Games just as there's one for holding them. I think the important question is whether a bid can be launched that would find broad support. I think there is, but we need to start looking at plans and funding models. I hope the architecture and design schools are on this. We need to see plans so we can debate the merits of a variety of options. With good design panels in place and a competitive field of firms, I'm sure we'd see an impressive, responsible bid.

 

[Euphoria]

Also, I wasn't being nostalgic in my earlier comments. I think we are still achieving things of great cultural significance, but I think it's easy to listen to the voices of fear and back away from challenges. My comments are just a reminder that we have been confident and dreamed big in the past. Let's not stop now.

 

[animatronic]

Deciding as a city to unite around a "no thanks" to the IOC would also be a very powerful tool for city building. In particular it would force politicians to stop chasing after shiny objects and get down to work.

 

[Euphoria]

I'd actually like to hear your vision for an Olympic bid, animatronic. You seem pretty savvy. What would you like to see?