Toronto 2020 Olympic Bid

[adma]

Maybe we don't need penis-envy crutches like *either* the NFL *or* the Olympics to be special.

In any event, ironically, this is one issue where (for better or worse) Ford is to Smitherman in 2010/11 what Rae was to Peterson in 1990/91...

 

[SlickFranky]

An your councilor represents a happy go lucky majority, right?

I know my councilor doesn't...he just represents the majority in the one little ward he got elected in. That's why he doesn't constantly speak on behalf of the Mayor's Office. I'm sick of seeing headlines reading "Ford Declares whatever" only to spot Doug's name 2 paragraphs down. I couldn't care less what Doug says or thinks, and I wish the media would stop putting up with this second-hand-comment crap.

 

[GenerationW]

For those who think NFL aspirations would get in the way, I'm not so sure. Ford can leverage city support with stipulations that the stadium would be constructed in a way that it could be modified for permanent use, like what Atlanta did with their Olympic Stadium becoming the replacement home for the Braves. This opens the door for the NFL more than what exists now.

An Olympic stadium would be funded primarily, if not totally, by Ottawa and Queen's Park. There is zero chance he could leverage anything to get the extra hundred million (or, more likely, hundreds of millions) it would take to go from part-permanent to standard NFL stadium. The Fords figured this out long ago, which is why they have been pursuing private funding. Therefore, no Olympic bid.

But the thing is, where does he get the money for this? Or will it be built by the "private sector" too?

He says it will be funded privately. Call him and ask him if you want. This is one issue he'll probably stay on the line for.

Whether it's your cup of tea or not, having an NFL team in Toronto would be a massive boost to the economy. You know, that nebulous thing that generates jobs and taxes and revenues to pay for all sorts of other things that might actually be your cup of tea?

Slight boost, maybe. Massive boost, no chance.

There was a story out of Oakland recently where it was noted that, because of their stadium deal, the City of Oakland would actually save money if the NFL lockout lasted for the whole year.

The NFL team will be funded by the PSLs.

A stadium might get partially funded that way. A team? No chance.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

A stadium might get partially funded that way. A team? No chance.

Sorry. I meant stadium.

An Olympic stadium would be funded primarily, if not totally, by Ottawa and Queen's Park. There is zero chance he could leverage anything to get the extra hundred million (or, more likely, hundreds of millions) it would take to go from part-permanent to standard NFL stadium. The Fords figured this out long ago, which is why they have been pursuing private funding. Therefore, no Olympic bid.

I would think the city would cough up that extra 100m, since they want it so bad.

 

[Marko]

Maybe we don't need penis-envy crutches like *either* the NFL *or* the Olympics to be special.

Really - the only motivation to do anything is to be *special* now, is it?

How about adding infrastructure, jobs, entertainment, tourism... ?

An Olympic stadium would be funded primarily, if not totally, by Ottawa and Queen's Park. There is zero chance he could leverage anything to get the extra hundred million (or, more likely, hundreds of millions) it would take to go from part-permanent to standard NFL stadium.

No one is asking the Feds or province to add the $100 mil to modify into an NFL stadium - I'm saying that the design could at least accomodate later renovations should someone one with that $100 mil be willing to bring an NFL team to Toronto. It's a whole lot closer to realizing the goal than building a 75,000 seat NFL stadium from scratch. There's no reason why the first $500+ mil the varying levels of government will spend should be ripped down after the games.

 

[GenerationW]

No one is asking the Feds or province to add the $100 mil to modify into an NFL stadium - I'm saying that the design could at least accomodate later renovations should someone one with that $100 mil be willing to bring an NFL team to Toronto. It's a whole lot closer to realizing the goal than building a 75,000 seat NFL stadium from scratch. There's no reason why the first $500+ mil the varying levels of government will spend should be ripped down after the games.

As far as I remember, the 2008 bid called for the permanent stripped-down portion of the Olympic stadium (30,000K?) to be offered to the Argos, who would be the primary tenant, something they actually once were but will never again be in the Dome. I can't imagine a 2020 bid would have been any different, and I believe the Province and especially the Feds would never sanction a plan to fund a stadium for a non-existent team (and foreign league) over an existing one (and domestic league). That dog won't ever hunt, and the Fords know it.

 

[innsertnamehere]

when it comes time for 2024 bidding, we will have held the pam-am games.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

As far as I remember, the 2008 bid called for the permanent stripped-down portion of the Olympic stadium (30,000K?) to be offered to the Argos, who would be the primary tenant, something they actually once were but will never again be in the Dome. I can't imagine a 2020 bid would have been any different, and I believe the Province and especially the Feds would never sanction a plan to fund a stadium for a non-existent team (and foreign league) over an existing one (and domestic league). That dog won't ever hunt, and the Fords know it.

I agree they won't but not because of the CFL. Because it's a waste of tax money. And even then they did contribute to the Skydome which was for the Argos, but became for a foreign league later on. Secondly, most of Harpers gains were in Ontario. The weakest CFL market, and not just Toronto either. Hamilton does not have good attendance. How many people really consider to throw away a Conservative government over sports? Not many. That would allow the Libs back in power and you should know how they are seen out west. That being said, Harper already wont because he did even give money to QC or Edmonton for their statdiums. It would be simply hypocritical. You overestmate the CFL influence in government. At most only half the western MP's would even care. Same with their Consituants(forgive me for the bad spelling), because not everyone care about sports. You have to consider the fact the some people are against funding period. I also never heard anything about an Olympic satdium to be used by the argos. I heard they tried to partner up with U of T and the York, but failed to build a joint stadium. Not saying you are wrong.

You make this same agrument all the time. A 2020 or 2024 or 2028 bid can all be very differnent. And it's not like Braley even wants a staduim, as he was blocked from moving to BMO field by the league and the Leafs and has not made a move since.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If Ford was smart, he would be talking to to teams that want to move rather than wait for expansion. Market Toronto and make it appealing. Do what Winnipeg did for the NHL. Ask TrueNorth for help if you must.

 

[Marko]

As far as I remember, the 2008 bid called for the permanent stripped-down portion of the Olympic stadium (30,000K?) to be offered to the Argos, who would be the primary tenant, something they actually once were but will never again be in the Dome. I can't imagine a 2020 bid would have been any different, and I believe the Province and especially the Feds would never sanction a plan to fund a stadium for a non-existent team (and foreign league) over an existing one (and domestic league). That dog won't ever hunt, and the Fords know it.

You're missing the point. They don't have to 'sanction a plan to fund a stadium for a non-existent team'. They would build an Olympic Stadium because a winnigng bid would need one, period. Are you telling me Ottawa and Queens Park are going to dictate the design elements? It's the COC that would do most of this, while the city and a potential long term tenant may influence the design in terms of form factor. The COC either follows their own drum, or if it's required in order to actually get the thing built, they work with whoever is pulling the strings. These parties can influence the design, form factor and potential upgrade capability - but not the dollars spent by government since they would already be spending the money.

I'm not saying his reasons for saying no go any further than "we can't afford it" but by having done so, he actually holds more of a hammer than he did before. The COC would have no choice but to come to some agreements in order to get everyone on board, and influence in the stadium design doesn't affect their bottom line at all.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Marko I will bow out. You are doing a fine job.

 

[adma]

Really - the only motivation to do anything is to be *special* now, is it?

How about adding infrastructure, jobs, entertainment, tourism... ?

In terms of Toronto, she was "special".

And a subtler advocate/progenitor of "infrastructure, jobs, entertainment, tourism", too.

 

[MetroMan]

when it comes time for 2024 bidding, we will have held the pam-am games.

You know you have a great point. It looks like so far the US isn't bidding so the 2020 games will be held somewhere NOT in North America. 2024 will be overdue for North America and while the US could bid, Toronto could too and be in a very strong position to win if we host a successful PanAmerican games (and we'll be rid of Rob Ford).

 

[syn]

Your next line already contradicted the above comment - in that Ford never intended to put up city money for the NFL - so why make it in the first place?

And how on earth could any private company make a return of hundreds of millions (billions?) in just a couple of weeks? Would they be offering a 2 week rental of the facilities back to the city, province and feds for a large profit? Would they build transit infrastructure - and if you joke that it would be OK for 2 weeks, why wouldn't it be OK for private companies to build transit infrastructure now, as has been thrown at as an idea and completely poo-pooed because of who said it?

Because my 2nd line should've cleared any confusion up. I was kidding - it would be well in line with his other ridiculous 'the private sector will pay for it' schemes.

 

[GenerationW]

You're missing the point. They don't have to 'sanction a plan to fund a stadium for a non-existent team'. They would build an Olympic Stadium because a winnigng bid would need one, period. Are you telling me Ottawa and Queens Park are going to dictate the design elements? It's the COC that would do most of this, while the city and a potential long term tenant may influence the design in terms of form factor. The COC either follows their own drum, or if it's required in order to actually get the thing built, they work with whoever is pulling the strings. These parties can influence the design, form factor and potential upgrade capability - but not the dollars spent by government since they would already be spending the money.

I'm not saying his reasons for saying no go any further than "we can't afford it" but by having done so, he actually holds more of a hammer than he did before. The COC would have no choice but to come to some agreements in order to get everyone on board, and influence in the stadium design doesn't affect their bottom line at all.

You're missing the point. The bottom line is that if Ford thought that a 2020 Olympic bid would get him to (or close to) an NFL stadium, we'd have a 2020 Olympic bid.

And are you really naive enough to believe the COC would sanction a stadium design that would satisfy Rob Ford but not Queen's Park and Ottawa (who would pay the bills)? Not a frickin chance.