Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[nfitz]

Canada is never going to get a World Cup.

I think a World Cup in Canada is realistic. I don't see any reason it won't be a possibility sometime in the next 40 to 60 years.

Remember the one advantage we have ... is we would fill a stadium for virtually any country in the world. Heck, many teams would have more supporters than Canada!

 

[jn_12]

I'm really sorry to say it, but if you think having supporters from every country due to our multiculturalism is enough to get us a World Cup, you're a bit naive.

I've gone into enough detail elsewhere why we couldn't host one, but I am speaking to the foreseeable future (30 years out, max). In 60 years who knows what the world looks like considering it was only 65 years ago that WWII ended. I guess Canada by then could be a completely different country with everything you could ever want out of a World Cup host, but I'm not too concerned about Canada hosting a World Cup when I'm 85 years old.

 

[nfitz]

I've gone into enough detail elsewhere why we couldn't host one, but I am speaking to the foreseeable future (30 years out, max).

Previously you said never. Never is billions of year. Realistically it's a 100 or so. Now you down to only in the next 30 years? So you just eliminated about 99.999999% of your case ... is there any point discussing the last 0.000001? It's pretty clear that there's no chance of Canada bidding at all until at least 2026 (as bids are currently open for 2018 and 2022, and CSA hasn't even pondered bidding); essentially all you are now saying is that won't win if we bid in the 4 following cups; 2026, 2030, 2034, and 2038. Probably a safe bet.

 

[GenerationW]

the US will never go in on a World Cup with Canada

I agree. That's the only way I could see it happening, but they don't need us. And imagine how happy the other CONCACAF countries would be killing themselves in qualifying if there were only one or two berths available with Mexico almost guaranteed to get one.

For the record, 2018 and 2022 will be decided this December. England is the early favourite for '18 and the U.S. for '22. The pressure is squarely on England after its massively embarrassing collapse trying to get the 2006 Cup.

 

[Kiwi]

If the stadium in rendering #2 gets built, it would make sense to keep the stadium for a potential Canadian (or a Canada/US) World Cup bid before it gets remodeled and shrunk.

You've got it opposite. Rendering #1 will get built as funding already approved. Rendering #2 is what the City is working towards instead. $50 million private money to upgrade the stadium.

 

[jn_12]

Previously you said never. Never is billions of year. Realistically it's a 100 or so. Now you down to only in the next 30 years? So you just eliminated about 99.999999% of your case ... is there any point discussing the last 0.000001? It's pretty clear that there's no chance of Canada bidding at all until at least 2026 (as bids are currently open for 2018 and 2022, and CSA hasn't even pondered bidding); essentially all you are now saying is that won't win if we bid in the 4 following cups; 2026, 2030, 2034, and 2038. Probably a safe bet.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this... Whether it's 30, 40, 50, 60... years I'd put really good money down on Canada not getting a World Cup before 2070. I'd even put money on Canada not getting one before 2100. I'm 99.9% certain of this and the only doubt I have is some amazing unforeseen event that causes Canada to have economic growth levels of current-day China. And, this Pan Am Stadium wouldn't play a role in Canada getting a World Cup anyways, because if Canada ever somehow became the New China, we'd be building a dozen World class facilities across the country includingin places like Saskatoon, Winnipeg and Victoria. If you foresee a time when any of those cities need a World Cup calibre stadium within the next 60 years, then you need to lay out how that's going to happen.

And honestly, if we're debating Canada getting a world cup half a century from now, is it worth arguing about?

 

[Kiwi]

Vancouver, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Hamilton are all slated to get a new stadium. Perhaps Halifax one day as well.

 

[nfitz]

And, this Pan Am Stadium wouldn't play a role in Canada getting a World Cup anyways ...

Of course not ... it's not a soccer stadium. It's not being used for soccer at the Pan-Am games!

 

[jn_12]

Kiwi: And I'm sure they'll all be state-of-the-art (doubtful) and seat 40-60,000 each (40k, sure). Oh and then they'll build 6 more to the same standard in other cities including one that will seat 80,000+ (better hope we get an Olympics or an NFL team). Then we'll get to the bare minimum requirements. Sounds pretty easy eh?

 

[jn_12]

Of course not ... it's not a soccer stadium. It's not being used for soccer at the Pan-Am games!

yes I know. I was just including that to make sure people didn't try to include it in a list of all the amazing stadiums we supposedly have that will host World Cup matches.

 

[jn_12]

Here are two of my own posts on the issue and there are some worthwhile comments made by other in response to why we won't be getting a World Cup.
http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.p...s-Bid&p=208002&highlight=World+Cup#post208002

Again, I feel like a broken record... FIFA doesn't allow Co-Hosting anymore for World Cups after the mess from 2002. They changed their statutes in 2004 to reflect this.

So, let's say just for our bid they changed this rule... why would the US want to co-host the World Cup with Canada? What exactly does the US gain from that, when they can and have hosted it successfully on their own? They would lose television and sponsorship revenue, as well as being unable to maximize the economical impact it would have on the country. Also, why would they want to do business with a dysfunctional CSA (That's the Canadian Soccer Association)? There is absolutely no incentive to the US co-hosting a tournament, so we need to get that out of our heads.

Anyways since we can't piggy back a US bid, we don't have the infrastructure to host a profitable tournament. You need at the very least 10 venues that can hold 40k+. Germany had 12, Korea/Japan had 20 (10 each). Compared to every other footballing nation in the world, we have virtually nothing in terms of quality. Skydome and maybe (more like barely) BC Place are the closest we have to state of the art in Canada and those would still need upgrades. At best we would need to substantially upgrade Commonwealth, Montreal's Olympic Stadium (assuming it can be upgraded) and maybe use this Pan-Am Stadium. So there's 5, and one of them is more likely to be imploded than upgraded. Really, all you have to do is look at the quality of venues that were in Germany (and even the ones that will be used in South Africa) to realize that unless we want to be a laughing stock, we should forget about this idea.


As for the issue of stadiums and where they're located: FIFA allows a host nation to use a maximum of two stadiums in one city. South Africa will have two stadiums in Johannesburg (with another in nearby Pretoria) and most recently, for France in 98, Paris had 2, although technically one was in St Denis.

http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.p...nsion&p=173600&highlight=World+Cup#post173600

As for the World Cup ever coming to Canada....

Well 2014 is in Brazil, so we won't be hosting anything for that one. 2018 and 2022 are still up for grabs but England is probably the favourite for one of them.

Canada will never host a World Cup (at least not in my lifetime). Maybe a joint bid with the US would be the closest thing we could get, but I don't know why they would want any part of us considering the CSA is in shambles and we don't have the infrastructure they do. They'd make far more money keeping the tournament in the US. In 94, they used football stadiums to host games, with RFK Stadium being the smallest at 57,000. We have 4 stadiums in this country that are 50k+ and one is the dilapidated Olympic Stadium in Montreal, and there are 5 others that can be expanded to RFK's size (roughly).

However, just because they have the seating requirements doesn't make them ideal for hosting an event like this. When you compare the quality, Canada cannot compete with just about any country that wants to make a serious bid without having to build a couple brand new state of the art stadiums (at least 70k each) and then spending billions on upgrades on most of the already existing stadiums. These would be temporary improvements since the CFL can't fill stadiums of this size. So essentially you're building 2 new stadiums, and upgrading 6 others so they can each host 5 or 6 games. Where would this money come from? The CSA can barely afford to survive, never mind invest in world class stadiums.

Let's say we did bid and won. What happens when 40,000 fans converge on Regina? do they have the infrastructure to cope? no, they don't. How will fans follow their teams from city to city? By then we have no clue what the airline industry will look like in this country, and you can forget about trains. Even if the airlines are healthy, they can't cope with the sheer volume of numbers that need to be transported.

Of course, one could look at 2010 in South Africa and 2014 in Brazil as examples that show anyone can get a world cup, but both countries only got it because FIFA wanted a continental rotation. Brazil didn't even compete against another country in bidding. Now that the rotation is complete and FIFA has gone back to allowing bids from anywhere at anytime, its more likely that Europe will host every other Cup (thereby limiting our chances once again) and a Canadian bid would have some stiff competition, and I just don't see how a committee could look past all of the above.

Now let's put an end to this World Cup in Canada nonsense.

 

[TOareaFan]

Here are two of my own posts on the issue and there are some worthwhile comments made by other in response to why we won't be getting a World Cup.
http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.p...s-Bid&p=208002&highlight=World+Cup#post208002

http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.p...nsion&p=173600&highlight=World+Cup#post173600


Now let's put an end to this World Cup in Canada nonsense.

The only (and it was marginal at best) hope Canada ever had for hosting a world cup was the notion of full fledged rotation between the continents/federations that make up FIFA. In our federation there are only 3 countries (Mexico, USA and Canada) that could host a WC.....Mexico has already done it twice....the US once and, for fun, let's assume they get it in 2022.....so in a rotation system the next time it became our region's turn then Canada would look very good and I could see FIFA helping out....now that they have scrapped formal rotation.....we are back where we once were...no hopers!!!

 

[jn_12]

I agree entirely. It was our only hope. But it was a formula that was bound to be broken. It was one of those ideas that sounds good on paper before you realize that Europe is by far the best continent to hold the event due to infrastructure, location and experience, and the concept of them hosting the event only once every few decades is absurd. Considering England, France, Germany, Spain and Italy could host the event if we wanted to have a World Cup tomorrow, and a couple countries like Belgium/Holland could co-host if they were allowed, I couldn't imagine each of them only getting to host the event every 100+ years. It'd be a travesty.

 

[Kiwi]

Here's a quote I got from Hamilton's stadium

"Games Opening Ceremonies in Toronto and then Pan Am flame relocates to Hamilton Stadium for the duration of the Pan Am Games"

So the flame will actually be in Hamilton and in Toronto for one day at Rogers Centre.

 

[wyliepoon]

^ Instead of riding a pickup truck like Wayne Gretzky in Vancouver, the final torchbearer might have to take the GO Train to light the "other cauldron". That would be an interesting television event.