Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[Logan]

I read this article today in the Toronto Star and this line made me chuckle:

"The stars may finally be aligning for Toronto to win a coveted spot on the international stage." www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/689726

Really? I don't even know or remember hearing who hosted the previous games. Are they even broadcast on TV? I think people need to put this into perspective.

Winnipeg hosted these games in 1999. Winnipeg. Nothing against Winnipeg but just saying. So would it really be such a feat that Toronto won? Would this put us on the "international stage"? I really don't think so. Most people I talked to haven't even heard of the Pam Am games.

Maybe it's because there are so many types of games now people don't care anymore. You have the Olympics (Winter/Summer), The Youth Olympics begin next year, Pam Am, Commonwealth Games, Gay Games, Police & Fire Games and so on.

I think we'd just get lost in the shuffle and end up with a big bill at the end and not much to show for it. International exposure? Is Winnipeg better off today because of it?

 

[afransen]

I bet bidding for the Olympics generated more exposure than hosting the PanAms would.

 

[Disparishun]

Really? I don't even know or remember hearing who hosted the previous games.

Wikipedia is your friend:

The 2007 Pan American Games, officially known as the XV Pan American Games, is a major international multi-sport event which was celebrated in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, from July 13 (with football starting on July 12) to July 29, 2007[1] and followed by the 2007 Parapan American Games from August 12 to August 19.[2] It is the largest sporting event to be staged in Rio de Janeiro, eclipsing the 1950 FIFA World Cup in terms of the number of teams competing, athletes competing, and events being held; an estimated 5,634 athletes from 42 countries[3] participated in 38 sports.[4] The venue for the opening and closing ceremonies was the Maracanã Stadium[5] which was also used during 1950 FIFA World Cup final match.[6]

Really? I don't even know or remember hearing who hosted the previous games. Are they even broadcast on TV?

* Argentina : Canal 7 Argentina
* Bolivia : Radio y Television Boliviana
* Brazil : Rede Bandeirantes, Rede Globo, Rede Record, BandSports, ESPN Brasil, Sportv
* Canada : CTV Sports
* Chile : Canal 13, TVN
* Colombia : Caracol TV, RCN Television
* Dominican Republic : Tele Antillas
* Ecuador : Gamavision, Teleamazonas
* El Salvador : Telecorporación Salvadoreña
* Mexico : ESPN Deportes, Televisa
* Panama: TV MAX-Canal 9
* Peru : America TV, Panamericana Television
* USA : ESPN
* Uruguay : Teledoce
* Venezuela : Meridiano TV

So would it really be such a feat that Toronto won? Would this put us on the "international stage"?

Yes, in Latin America and the Caribbean. I believe that is about 600m people. Its success in the North American English-language markets, of course, is up to us. There is no doubt that the event needs to be better marketed up here, especially in the U.S.

 

[Logan]

"Its success in the North American English-language markets, of course, is up to us."

How so? It's up to the networks and if there's an appetite to view them. I just don't think there is. Not in Canada/US anyway.

And besides, beaming Toronto's image to some of the most improvished countries on Earth won't do much for Tourism if that's the goal here.

 

[Torontovibe]

The Pan Am Games are completely ignored by almost everyone and will continue to be ignored, if held in Toronto. The only good thing that will come out of it, is that The West Donlands will develop much faster and there will be no backing out at the last minute. For development freaks, like some on here, that will make it all worth wild, although it will be costly to tax payers.

 

[syn]

Precisely....in the transportation section of UT there is a discussion about the improvements to the subway platform at Union Station......this is a project that, I believe, has universal support and it is acknowledged that we should have it..........if we had been successful in the Olympic bid (for 2008) we had promised the world that project (along with a few others) would be done before the start of the event..........we even had a very big press conference where the Mayor, the Premier and the Prime Minister all held up big cheques and put the money in the bank for the projects. Now, over a year after those games are done, we are finally approving the one project to get moving.

Games act like a big family reunion....they force us to paint those walls and replace those carpets that we know we need to do but we never get around to......knowing that guests are arriving at a specific time gets us up off the couch and doing the work.

Opponents of big games like this like to say that they lose money and the cost is too great....but they generally only lose money if you assume that everything built for the games was not going to happen anyway and should be allocated to the cost of the games (eg....Vancouver 2010...the see to sky highway and the Richmond train line are not included in their costs when they say they will break even or even turn a profit....opponents say they should be as they are being done for the Olympics....the reality is they need(ed) to be done anyway and will be of long term benefit...not just benefit the Olympics).

Toronto does a great job of letting opponents speak up (it is widely regarded as why we did not win the '96 olympic bid over Atlanta.....the IOC committee were given direct face-to-face time with vocal opponents...very unusual for a bid city to do that and it spooked some IOC people into thinking that no one in Toronto wanted the games)......sometimes, though, we give a bit too much weight to the opinions of a vocal minority as opposed to thinking of the value to the city/region and the "greater good"....which leads to a nasty cycle of catch 22....we don't get big events because we can never prove we have hosted big events.

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. Atlanta won because they bribed the officials.

Sydney did too when they won the 2000 Games.

As for 2008, Toronto never really had a chance against Beijing unless they had an epic screwup.

 

[syn]

I read this article today in the Toronto Star and this line made me chuckle:

"The stars may finally be aligning for Toronto to win a coveted spot on the international stage." www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/689726

Really? I don't even know or remember hearing who hosted the previous games. Are they even broadcast on TV? I think people need to put this into perspective.

Winnipeg hosted these games in 1999. Winnipeg. Nothing against Winnipeg but just saying. So would it really be such a feat that Toronto won? Would this put us on the "international stage"? I really don't think so. Most people I talked to haven't even heard of the Pam Am games.

Maybe it's because there are so many types of games now people don't care anymore. You have the Olympics (Winter/Summer), The Youth Olympics begin next year, Pam Am, Commonwealth Games, Gay Games, Police & Fire Games and so on.

I think we'd just get lost in the shuffle and end up with a big bill at the end and not much to show for it. International exposure? Is Winnipeg better off today because of it?

I'm not expecting much exposure for the games, but it should certainly accelerate the pace of many projects in the city. That would be the biggest benefit for me.

 

[nfitz]

While I think using a whole GO train to shuttle the delegation was a mistake, putting them on a train was probably a right idea for the bid team.

Agreed ... and the media seems to be overplaying the whole train cancellation thing a bit.

The report was that train that was cancelled was a Port Credit to Union train that starts in Port Credit at 8:07, and stops only at Long Branch and Mimico before arriving at Union at 8:30.

However in it's place, GO stopped the express that left Oakville at 7:58 at Port Credit, Long Branch, and Mimico ... and arrived at Union at 8:32.

I'm often on GO trains that are more than 2 minutes later, without seeing write-ups in the newspaper!

 

[TOareaFan]

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. Atlanta won because they bribed the officials.

I believe it was a bit of both....I do remember IOC officials talking about their meetings with Bread not Circuses and speaking of widespread opposition to the games causing them concerns. It may, in the end, have been a convenient excuse to accept what was on offer ( ) from Atlanta.

I am a proponent and fan of us getting one of these big events....I happen to think that the pluses outweigh the negatives and that many of the financial costs simply relate to building things that we need/want anyway but are reluctant to build without the impetus of a big event. I would never, however, advocate the stifling/muffling of opposition groups (no matter how big or small) to achieve that goal.....our openess and willingness to listen to opposing points of view might be part of why things take so long to get done around here but they are also a pretty good defining character trait to have.

As for 2008, Toronto never really had a chance against Beijing unless they had an epic screwup.

I think the screw up would have had to be along the lines of invading America and, even then, the IOC might have said "let's put it behind us...it is not like they nuked ya"

 

[TOareaFan]

Agreed ... and the media seems to be overplaying the whole train cancellation thing a bit.

The report was that train that was cancelled was a Port Credit to Union train that starts in Port Credit at 8:07, and stops only at Long Branch and Mimico before arriving at Union at 8:30.

However in it's place, GO stopped the express that left Oakville at 7:58 at Port Credit, Long Branch, and Mimico ... and arrived at Union at 8:32.

I'm often on GO trains that are more than 2 minutes later, without seeing write-ups in the newspaper!

As I said earlier....I think the only thing they did wrong was try to hide the truth in the first place. If they had come out and said "sorry there will be an adjustment to the schedule to accomodate Toronto's Pan Am bid that will result in you arriving 2 minutes later than scheduled"...there would have been nothing for the media to "uncover" and question them about.....saying, however, that the change was due to "equipment availibility" seems like you are disprespecting your customers a bit. (IMO)

 

[nfitz]

... however, that the change was due to "equipment availibility" seems like you are disprespecting your customers a bit. (IMO)

But it was about equipment availability. The equipment was elsewhere. Had they said something about equipment failure, switching problems, or staffing issues ... then I could see the point. The media seems to have overplayed this, making it sound like people were stuck waiting forever ... when the delay was about 2 minutes.

 

[Disparishun]

"Its success in the North American English-language markets, of course, is up to us."

How so? It's up to the networks and if there's an appetite to view them. I just don't think there is. Not in Canada/US anyway.

I think that expending effort to build demand for a product is usually referred to as "marketing". PanAm Games were once a major event in Canada. They are still huge in Latin America. They are a pretty good product -- if you like Jamaican track, Brazilian soccer, Cuban baseball, Argentinian basketball, and that sort of thing. Hence, "marketing".

And besides, beaming Toronto's image to some of the most improvished countries on Earth won't do much for Tourism if that's the goal here.

Your assertion that inbound tourism and investment from Latin America and the Caribbean is of no interest to us is wildly incorrect -- and, to be frank, kind of silly.

The Pan American Games in Toronto will be an important catalyst for increasing our trade, investment and cultural links with the rest of the Americas.

The Pan Am Games are completely ignored by almost everyone and will continue to be ignored, if held in Toronto.

That's totally wrong.

It is pretty clear that the Pan Am Games are a major Latin-American event. They are a major event there and it is a bit odd to discount this -- why would you?

In the U.S. and Canada, they have fallen away from the same level of attention, but it is totally wrong to say they are ignored, given the level of coverage devoted to them on, say, ESPN. (To be honest, I don't recall how CTV Sports covered Rio.)

That said, if hosting in the Toronto Pan Am Games (if we get them) in an Anglophone country does not increase their profile in Canada and the U.S., then the Toronto Pan-Am Organizing Committee will have done a poor marketing job indeed.

Winnipeg hosted these games in 1999. Winnipeg. Nothing against Winnipeg but just saying.

I've got to say, this is the silliest out of a pretty silly bunch of criticisms. If you think Winnipeg hosting the Pan-Am Games makes it dinky, then just what does that make the Olympics (hello Sochi, Turin, Salt Lake City, Lake Placid, Albertville, Grenoble, etc., etc.)?

There's lots of reasons to NIMBY the Pan-Am Games, but "who ever heard of them" and "ha! Winnipeg! ha ha ha!" do not quite do the job.

 

[nfitz]

What's odd ... is frankly I have no recollection at all of Winnipeg hosting the Pan-Am games. I remember the Olympics in Calgary in 1988. I remember the Olympics in Montreal in 1976. I remember the Commonwealth games in Edmonton in 1978.

But I don't recall the 1999 games off-hand ... hmm, or the Victoria Commonwealth games ... though I've got a vague recollection that something happened there sometime.

The games just don't have that much prominence. Though the potential benefits for the city seem reasonable enough ... and $1.5-billion seems like peanuts, considering the other spending going in ... what, there's about $12-billion alone for TTC projects alone at the moment, with more being requested. $billions to GO. The redevelopment benefits alone alone for the Donlands area seems great!

 

[TOareaFan]

But it was about equipment availability. The equipment was elsewhere. Had they said something about equipment failure, switching problems, or staffing issues ... then I could see the point. The media seems to have overplayed this, making it sound like people were stuck waiting forever ... when the delay was about 2 minutes.

Yes...by the letter you are right...but why they could not just say what was up rather than using veiled words.....you might know the difference but I bet that most people heard or read that and their mind saw/heard "technical problems".

I just think that by not simply saying in accurate and real words what the train was being used for they left themselves open for being "found out" and, as you and I agree, the actual delay/inconvenience was minimal and easy to justify....up front!

 

[nfitz]

How much information does one ever put into delay announcements? It already seems more detailed than the information I get when my bus doesn't show up for 10 minutes.

If perhaps people were inconvenienced by this, perhaps I could understand. But since when isn't a 2-minute delay on GO not normal anyways!