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Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

That's a huge blow to Markham - they've wanted to build that thing forever and, as the article shows, already put money aside.

I see the Star didn't so much as call them for reaction, however. Their loss of the facility strikes me as more interesting than U of T "winning" it, but what do I know?
 
No I don't think you understand the situation.

UofT has always had a bid going for this facility but it wasn't as publicized.

So in that sense it's completely fair and it would have been a big loss to both sides.
 
There has also been discussion about Mississauga, Oakville, and Milton collaborating on an aquatic centre which would be located around Eglinton and Ninth Line. It had even got to the point that Miss. city councillors had said that they would back the proposal on condition that the land involved, on the west side of Ninth Line, currently in Milton, would be transferred to Mississauga. There was an article about it a couple of weeks ago in the Mississauga News.

Given that the Pan-Am games was the main justification for such a facility, I wonder if the idea will now be dead?
 
Why is the main sports facility located so far from downtown?? I would guess they would try to put it as close as possible to as much people as possible. In that respect though, Eglinton and Ninth Line would've been the worst place. For some reason I feel like Toronto is going to get all the new construction, which is good for us, but it just might make the Golden Horsechoe area hate Toronto. We'll just have to wait and see where the velodrome goes...
 
I'm glad one of the inner suburbs will get it (hopefully).

Our inner suburbs really have it bad if you stop and think about. Whenever anything is proposed for Toronto we want it to go downtown (which makes sense). Politically speaking you're better off funding project that will go downtown + another city i.e. Mississauga, Markham ... so on. But the inner suburbs are virtually ignored when it comes to these kinds of development.
 
The Markham location was the preferred location of the Ontario Olympic committee so it is interesting that the Pan Am Games committee went with another proposal.
 
I wonder why they did in the end?

What was the leading factor that made them go with UofT. I guess you can spin that the other way, why did they want to go with the Markham location?
 
hoodlum said:
Here is some information from their web site:

http://www.cscontario.ca/web_page/csio_announcements.php

http://www.cscontario.ca/web_page/csio_facilities_venues.php

The Markham location seemed to encompassed more than what the University location will provide.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link.....personally I would be opposed to seeing any of the Pan-Am games money going towards building another 6k ice rink....unless it could be shown that all of the similar sized rinks in the area (GM Place in Oshawa, Ricoh Centre in Toronto, Powerade Centre in Brampton, Hershey Centre in Mississauga) were already being fully utilized for the games.

If funds are limited (as I suspect they probably are) then we should use those funds to create what we don't have yet....not another rink for Junior hockey (which it has shown has a very limited audience in the GTA).

IMHO.
 
Although, a 6000 seat arena in St. Catharines would be very useful. For such a big and populous region, the biggest arena holds maybe 3,000 people uncomfortably. Also, now that the Icedogs are in St Catharines, it would be a well-used investment.
 
jn_12 said:
Although, a 6000 seat arena in St. Catharines would be very useful. For such a big and populous region, the biggest arena holds maybe 3,000 people uncomfortably. Also, now that the Icedogs are in St Catharines, it would be a well-used investment.
Click to expand...

Sure it would be used and if they need it for their OHL team...they should build it (as Barrie, Brampton, Mississauga and Oshawa did).....what they should not do (nor should any community) use the Pan Am games budget to "backdoor" arena funding when arenas are the one thing we have aplenty (relative to the needs of a mult-sport games like the Pan Ams).

Prior to Pan Am games funding being used for any new arena (in Markham, St. Catherines...or anywhere) someone needs to look at the sports that need arenas and tell us that the arenas I mentioned previously, along with Copps (and maybe the Molson Centre) are going to be fully utilized and we still need another indoor venue for the games....if they can't say that, they should use the limited funds they have for things we really need (tracks, veledromes, etc).
 
Well it depends on what you mean by "fully utilized." In larger arenas that play host the OHL games there's only so many non-junior teams that can play there. Growing up, I played AAA hockey and we didn't start playing on NHL sized ice (so the ice found at Copps, Hershey Centre, Brampton arena) until we were at least 14, maybe 15. Brampton and Hamilton only have one AAA level team per age group. Even for elite players, NHL ice is very big when you're 14, so you can't possibly allow younger age groups to use the ice. So essentially, there's only so many minor hockey teams that are capable of playing in these arenas. So let's say the OHL club uses the rink everyday for practice and twice a week for home games. AAA clubs have one or two home games per week and 2 or 3 practices. As well, they don't require ticket sales, multiple concession stands, pre and post game prep, etc. In fact they don't even flood the ice every period, so the average AAA game only runs 1.5hours. So if you figure 3 AAA teams in each OHL city could use the rink, it's still won't be even close to being "fully utilized"

Now you might be saying that we need to put younger kids on there, but we have to remember that OHL hockey is a business. The more the ice is used the harder it is to maintain at a optimal level. Also, from a development standpoint, you don't want younger kids playing on big ice all the time. Most people don't realize local rinks come in all different sizes, but this is necessary because 8 year olds would spend more time chasing errant pucks than learning hockey skills.

Sorry if that's difficult to follow. If you haven't played hockey, or aren't familiar with the Ontario hockey system, it might make little sense.

What is needed is more minor hockey facilities throughout the Golden Horseshoe. Only St Catharines needs a 6000 seat arena right now. They should build ten four-pad rinks throughout the golden horseshoe with the money included in the Pan-Am fund and help relieve the pressure from all of the existing rinks.
 
jn_12 said:
Well it depends on what you mean by "fully utilized." In larger arenas that play host the OHL games there's only so many non-junior teams that can play there. Growing up, I played AAA hockey and we didn't start playing on NHL sized ice (so the ice found at Copps, Hershey Centre, Brampton arena) until we were at least 14, maybe 15. Brampton and Hamilton only have one AAA level team per age group. Even for elite players, NHL ice is very big when you're 14, so you can't possibly allow younger age groups to use the ice. So essentially, there's only so many minor hockey teams that are capable of playing in these arenas. So let's say the OHL club uses the rink everyday for practice and twice a week for home games. AAA clubs have one or two home games per week and 2 or 3 practices. As well, they don't require ticket sales, multiple concession stands, pre and post game prep, etc. In fact they don't even flood the ice every period, so the average AAA game only runs 1.5hours. So if you figure 3 AAA teams in each OHL city could use the rink, it's still won't be even close to being "fully utilized"

Now you might be saying that we need to put younger kids on there, but we have to remember that OHL hockey is a business. The more the ice is used the harder it is to maintain at a optimal level. Also, from a development standpoint, you don't want younger kids playing on big ice all the time. Most people don't realize local rinks come in all different sizes, but this is necessary because 8 year olds would spend more time chasing errant pucks than learning hockey skills.

Sorry if that's difficult to follow. If you haven't played hockey, or aren't familiar with the Ontario hockey system, it might make little sense.

What is needed is more minor hockey facilities throughout the Golden Horseshoe. Only St Catharines needs a 6000 seat arena right now. They should build ten four-pad rinks throughout the golden horseshoe with the money included in the Pan-Am fund and help relieve the pressure from all of the existing rinks.
Click to expand...


no...what I meant was fully utilized for the Pan Am games. If any community wants a sports facility and wants it funded (fully or partially) out of the Pan Am Games pot o' money there should be a Pan Am games need for the facility......so, with respect, what I see in that Markham proposal is an arena being funded by "hiding" it within a mult-sport complex containing some fieldhouses, gymnasiums, etc. But the main facility built, really, is a 4 rink ice complex with one of those rinks having 6,000 seats. That alone is probably $50 million of the $60 million (+/-) cost.

Now, if the Pan Am games needs a new GTA 6,000 seat arena then that would make sense. My gut feel, though, is that there are not a ton of arena sports in the Pan Am games and the one thing that we have aplenty is arenas...leaving out the ACC (which is privately owned), the GTA/Hamilton has the following publicly owned spectator arenas:

Powerade Centre (Brampton) - 5,000 seats.
Hershey Centre (Mississauga) - 5,400 seats and 400 standing ....total 5,800
GM Centre (Oshawa) - 5,400 seats
Richoh Coliseum (Toronto) - 10,000 (+/-)
Copps Coliseum (Hamilton) - 17,000 (+)
Ray Twinney Complex (Newmarket) - 3,700
Varsity Arena (UofT - Toronto) - 4,000 (+/-)


If the Pan Am games needed more indoor arena type facilities than that (hard to imagine that being the case, you could expand the geography to include Molson Centre (Barrie) and its 4,200 seats and/or Sleeman Centre (Guelph) 4,500 seats.

So, I guess, what I am saying is that we have to be mindful that we don't abuse the Pan Am games funding to simply build what we already have in different places.......when the point should be that we build what we need for the games and leave behind a sporting and housing legacy.

Sorry St. Catherines, if you need a 6,000 seat arena (and a report in the weekend paper here seems to indicate you do) find a way to build it as the above cities did without Pan Am games funds......otherwise we will leave a legacy that looks like the one we have now....that is, we can host world junior hockey tournaments or bonspiels.....but not much else!!!
 
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ya that's fine. Just a misunderstanding over utilization.

I don't think there's a reason to put an arena in St Catharines just because the Pan-Ams are coming. I was merely saying that there's only one place in all of the golden horseshoe that needs an arena of that size. Really, it's unnecessary because as you listed, there are plenty of big(ish) arenas in the region.
 
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