Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[Tuscani01]

Nearly half of it was covered by Canadian taxpayers though, so less than $100 per Ontarian, and even less for those living in municipalities that are not participating since municipalities were responsible for a third of the cost of their own facilities. Mind you, many of these facilities are being used as community centres after the games, so how can you really complain about it?

At the end of the day, the budget included many things that should be considered assets. Your tax dollars went towards building amenities that the Province will continue to benefit from long after the games are over.

 

[Tewder]

We needed an train connection to Person Airport for years, we need more affordable housing, but somehow we can only get this done if it's an international sporting event happens? By that logic if we ever want the Downtown Relief Line we would have to host the Olympics.

Thank you Panam games! Come on, you can say it!

People here bitch every time this city bids for something that hosting events doesn't bring any improvements to infrastructure, then when we get the improvements they bitch that we had to host something to get them. Let's face it, they just like to bitch... oh and this fantasyland they live in that those investment dollars would have been spent on infrastructure if we didn't host the games? Sure, history supports that notion!

 

[animatronic]

Thank you Panam games! Come on, you can say it!

People here bitch every time this city bids for something that hosting events doesn't bring any improvements to infrastructure, then when we get the improvements they bitch that we had to host something to get them. Let's face it, they just like to bitch... oh and this fantasyland they live in that those investment dollars would have been spent on infrastructure if we didn't host the games? Sure, history supports that notion!

So you supported the G8/G20? Those gazebos won't just build themselves.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

All I know is that instead of paying for part of the DRL my taxes are being spent so some guys from Uruguay can play handball with Argentina at the Ex.

Let. It. Go. The Pan Am Games is going to happen. Those taxes have been spent. You can't have them back. It is the absolute definition of 'sunk cost'.

On a cheerier note, it seems that pretty much the entire women's rugby 7s team will be at the Pan Ams, as they didn't have to play in North Carolina and could rest up (since they'd already qualified for the Rio Olympics.) Unfortunately the men not only had to play, they lost to the Americans in the final and have to go to the final qualification repechage -- a good chance they miss out on Rio. So close, and yet so far.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Nearly half of it was covered by Canadian taxpayers though, so less than $100 per Ontarian, and even less for those living in municipalities that are not participating since municipalities were responsible for a third of the cost of their own facilities. Mind you, many of these facilities are being used as community centres after the games, so how can you really complain about it?

At the end of the day, the budget included many things that should be considered assets. Your tax dollars went towards building amenities that the Province will continue to benefit from long after the games are over.

This may blow your mind, but I am also a Canadian taxpayer and a Toronto taxpayer and will be expected to pay the interest on these debt-financed games for years to come. I pay enough in taxes that I feel that I have a right to complain when money is spent unwisely.

Something is an asset only if it's value actually matches it's cost, and operating expenses are gone forever.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

This may blow your mind, but I am also a Canadian taxpayer and a Toronto taxpayer and will be expected to pay the interest on these debt-financed games for years to come. I pay enough in taxes that I feel that I have a right to complain when money is spent unwisely.

Something is an asset only if it's value actually matches it's cost, and operating expenses are gone forever.

How do you get that these games are 'debt-financed' as opposed to any other Fed/Prov/Muni project? There's not a special bucket for Pan Am games costs, which they then assign to a certain Ontario bond. This all comes out of general revenue. It blows my mind that people feel the need to complain about the parts of government spending they don't like and not the parts they personally like. You don't get to pick and choose at the project level.

The time to complain about the Pan Am games was before we made the bid and won the games. Animatronic and I did. We lost that battle. At this point, running them well, not overspending on facilities, and putting on a good show are priorities. So far I'd say they've done a pretty good job on most fronts, with the actual 'putting on a good show' TBD.

 

[nrb]

Personally I'm not just going to "embrace" the games because this is step 1 in an even bigger waste of resources to bring the olympics to Toronto. Fuck that.

 

[Tuscani01]

I don't want my tax dollars going to build "athletic" amenities that will instantly deteriorate, as all assets eventually do. I want my tax dollars to benefit me, to help me, to support me. My issues and my concerns. Because MY tax dollars are wasted unless it's all about ME...

Um... In that case, I dont want my tax dollars going to YOU! You are also deteriorating just like any other person does. My tax dollars are being wasted on you. I shouldn't have to pay taxes to extend the drain that you place on the tax system!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Personally I'm not just going to "embrace" the games because this is step 1 in an even bigger waste of resources to bring the olympics to Toronto. Fuck that.

And your 'unembrace' (straight-arm? cold shoulder?) of the Pan Ams will do zero for that, FFS. But since you were not going to embrace the Games anyway, it doesn't really matter, does it?

Assuming I'm back in Toronto when/if an Olympic bid gets started, I'll need to figure out a much better way of opposing it than kvetching on UT. But I doubt an Olympic bid has legs these days, given Toronto's historic ambivalence and the continuous 'big sports' corruption and scandal. It's becoming harder and harder for the grifters to find more patsies to host their vampire squid blood sucking spectacles.

 

[Tewder]

So you supported the G8/G20? Those gazebos won't just build themselves.

I don't remember us 'bidding' for the G8/G20? Did I miss that?

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

How do you get that these games are 'debt-financed' as opposed to any other Fed/Prov/Muni project? There's not a special bucket for Pan Am games costs, which they then assign to a certain Ontario bond. This all comes out of general revenue. It blows my mind that people feel the need to complain about the parts of government spending they don't like and not the parts they personally like. You don't get to pick and choose at the project level.

The time to complain about the Pan Am games was before we made the bid and won the games. Animatronic and I did. We lost that battle. At this point, running them well, not overspending on facilities, and putting on a good show are priorities. So far I'd say they've done a pretty good job on most fronts, with the actual 'putting on a good show' TBD.

I am aware of how government finances work. The point remains that any net new spending adds to the deficit which in turn has to be financed through additional debt.

People have a right to complain about government programs they don't like; it's called free speech. The government can (and will) ignore those complaints but you can't expect us to "get behind" something we don't support. If enough people ignore the games, don't buy tickets, express displeasure, etc. it might lead future politicians to re-think going in for this sort of thing.

For what it's worth I did express my opposition during the bid process.

 

[howl]

It's true. Every time I see a community centre, new park or bike path, I think how my tax money has been directly pick-pocketed out of my income for "sport". As a taxpayer, I am constantly outraged that Ontario spends any money at all on amateur sports, something I have no interest in--

I feel the same way when I look out the GO train window at the QEW. Damn car drivers driving on a road I paid for.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Yeah, pretty much except for the being at home part. Do you actually own a house? My taxes have been pretty steady but electricity and water rates are through the roof. I'm not complaining about that because there are good reasons for it, but I'd still prefer that the Ontario government be slightly less free-spending. You seen the credit rating agency reports lately?

Grocery prices are also through the roof thanks to the decline in the loonie. My daughter loves those California blueberries.

 

[animatronic]

I don't remember us 'bidding' for the G8/G20? Did I miss that?

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2009/09/25/pm-announces-canada-host-g20-leaders-2010

Canada absolutely bid on the G20 - it just wasn't public.

 

[The Golem]

So you supported the G8/G20? Those gazebos won't just build themselves.

As usual you post nonsense. "If you support public libraries you also support Bill C-51 since both rely on tax money."

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2009/09/25/pm-announces-canada-host-g20-leaders-2010

Canada absolutely bid on the G20 - it just wasn't public.

The article you linked says nothing about bids, bidding, or a bid process.
I think your consumption of Ford Nation kool-aid has impaired your ability to think logically and put forward a rational argument.